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the ASPI is also behind the Uyghur forced labor story a month ago. But if you go to the actual paper and download the PDF https://www.aspi.org.au/report/uyghurs

by xster 6y ago

the ASPI is also behind the Uyghur forced labor story a month ago. But if you go to the actual paper and download the PDF https://www.aspi.org.au/report/uyghurs-sale https://www.aspi.org.au/report/uyghurs-sale, then one by one click through the primary source and Google Translate it, it's just mainstream Chinese news and social media contents about reducing unemployment, out-of-province workers and multi-ethnic social events re-"narrativized" to mean forced labor. Also a couple of criticisms from Australian elected officials themselves https://www.afr.com/policy/foreign-affairs/the-think-tank-behind-australia-s-changing-view-of-china-20200131-p53wgp https://www.afr.com/policy/foreign-affairs/the-think-tank-be... https://www.australiachinarelations.org/content/theres-more-china-debate-lackeys-versus-stooges-0 https://www.australiachinarelations.org/content/theres-more-... on the ASPI who still defends the Iraq War, Syrian regime change war and argues that the west should have went to war in Ukraine. There's a longer editorial version of the criticism here: https://thegrayzone.com/2020/03/26/forced-labor-china-us-nato-arms-industry-cold-war/ https://thegrayzone.com/2020/03/26/forced-labor-china-us-nat...

godelski 6y ago
Chinese officials called them "reeducation camps" to western reporter. I cannot imagine that Chinese officials would be oblivious to the fact that "reeducation camps" and "concentration camps" are synonymous in Westerners' minds. If not, then it is a surprising and huge blunder. No matter what is happening there, even what officials have officially shown western media, crosses our moral boundaries. The optics of putting adults in 24/7 education centers, that are gated (and doing the same to kids), is not seen as an okay thing to do.
- xster 6y ago
  > If not, then it is a surprising and huge blunder. Ya, no disagreements there. The Chinese government has zero PR capabilities. Every response from their foreign ministry's spokesperson to a leading question sounds like a painful mea culpa. > No matter what is happening there, even what officials have officially shown western media, crosses our moral boundaries. Who is "our" in this case? It doesn't seem to include the U.N. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-rights-un/china-says-reached-broad-consensus-with-un-after-xinjiang-visit-idUSKCN1TH00T https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-rights-un/china-say... or Organization of Islamic Cooperation https://www.oic-oci.org/docdown/?docID=4447&refID=1250 https://www.oic-oci.org/docdown/?docID=4447&refID=1250. Not that any of them have more PR power than China either.
  - godelski 6y ago
    > UN I don't think most consider the UN to be upholding Western values. That's also not their prerogative since they also aren't distinctly Western. The permanent members are: China, France, Russian Federation, the United Kingdom, and the United States. Sure, that's 3 to 2, but not exactly like US/Western overlords. > OIC Since when is the OIC considered "Western"? > The Chinese government has zero PR capabilities. > Not that any of them have more PR power than China either. China has a lot of PR power. part of which is exactly what the article and topic at hand are about. This is so far removed from reality that I'm not exactly sure how to respond.
    - xster 6y ago
      I'm not sure how exactly to respond either. Your response seems unrelated to the thread so far. > I don't think most consider the UN to be upholding Western values. Of course my reply doesn't respond to your questions on western values. It's the first time you bring up "western values". That's why I asked what you're referring to as "our". > China has a lot of PR power. part of which is exactly what the article and topic at hand are about. This is so far removed from reality that I'm not exactly sure how to respond. Maybe you're right. I wouldn't know how to quantify it. Can you name a single thing in the past decade came into your consciousness from Chinese PR (that isn't re-broadcasted from western editorials)? > Since when is the OIC considered "Western"? Wait, I thought the west cares about the whole thing now because of Muslim freedom and eagles and all. Now Muslim opinions on Muslims are irrelevant? That's the most "Western" thing to say :)
      - godelski 6y ago
        > It's the first time you bring up "western values". That's why I asked what you're referring to as "our". See my original comment > Can you name a single thing in the past decade came into your consciousness from Chinese PR (that isn't re-broadcasted from western editorials)? What's in the parenthesis makes that a near impossible criteria since western media does do global coverage depending on what you mean by editorials. It is important to remember that the media here doesn't have to report back to any single entity. There's multiple countries, multiple organizations. Each with their own bias. But every country does report on global news. If we are considering news that isn't editorials, then yes, plenty. There's been plenty here on HN. TikTok's response was on the front page. Several news organizations have defended TikTok. Some have issued (non-editorial) pieces on both sides. There's a lot of talk of military, which is PR. Economics. Quite a lot of economics and how fast China is growing. That's PR too. How quickly China dealt with covid 19. That's PR too. So either this is trivial or impossible depending on your statement in parenthesis. > Now Muslim opinions on Muslims are irrelevant? HN has rules about acting in good faith. Willfully misrepresenting comments, trolling, and baiting are not allowed here. [0] [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

by xster 6y ago

godelski 6y ago

Chinese officials called them "reeducation camps" to western reporter. I cannot imagine that Chinese officials would be oblivious to the fact that "reeducation camps" and "concentration camps" are synonymous in Westerners' minds. If not, then it is a surprising and huge blunder. No matter what is happening there, even what officials have officially shown western media, crosses our moral boundaries. The optics of putting adults in 24/7 education centers, that are gated (and doing the same to kids), is not seen as an okay thing to do.

xster 6y ago
> If not, then it is a surprising and huge blunder. Ya, no disagreements there. The Chinese government has zero PR capabilities. Every response from their foreign ministry's spokesperson to a leading question sounds like a painful mea culpa. > No matter what is happening there, even what officials have officially shown western media, crosses our moral boundaries. Who is "our" in this case? It doesn't seem to include the U.N. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-rights-un/china-says-reached-broad-consensus-with-un-after-xinjiang-visit-idUSKCN1TH00T https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-rights-un/china-say... or Organization of Islamic Cooperation https://www.oic-oci.org/docdown/?docID=4447&refID=1250 https://www.oic-oci.org/docdown/?docID=4447&refID=1250. Not that any of them have more PR power than China either.
- godelski 6y ago
  > UN I don't think most consider the UN to be upholding Western values. That's also not their prerogative since they also aren't distinctly Western. The permanent members are: China, France, Russian Federation, the United Kingdom, and the United States. Sure, that's 3 to 2, but not exactly like US/Western overlords. > OIC Since when is the OIC considered "Western"? > The Chinese government has zero PR capabilities. > Not that any of them have more PR power than China either. China has a lot of PR power. part of which is exactly what the article and topic at hand are about. This is so far removed from reality that I'm not exactly sure how to respond.
  - xster 6y ago
    I'm not sure how exactly to respond either. Your response seems unrelated to the thread so far. > I don't think most consider the UN to be upholding Western values. Of course my reply doesn't respond to your questions on western values. It's the first time you bring up "western values". That's why I asked what you're referring to as "our". > China has a lot of PR power. part of which is exactly what the article and topic at hand are about. This is so far removed from reality that I'm not exactly sure how to respond. Maybe you're right. I wouldn't know how to quantify it. Can you name a single thing in the past decade came into your consciousness from Chinese PR (that isn't re-broadcasted from western editorials)? > Since when is the OIC considered "Western"? Wait, I thought the west cares about the whole thing now because of Muslim freedom and eagles and all. Now Muslim opinions on Muslims are irrelevant? That's the most "Western" thing to say :)
    - godelski 6y ago
      > It's the first time you bring up "western values". That's why I asked what you're referring to as "our". See my original comment > Can you name a single thing in the past decade came into your consciousness from Chinese PR (that isn't re-broadcasted from western editorials)? What's in the parenthesis makes that a near impossible criteria since western media does do global coverage depending on what you mean by editorials. It is important to remember that the media here doesn't have to report back to any single entity. There's multiple countries, multiple organizations. Each with their own bias. But every country does report on global news. If we are considering news that isn't editorials, then yes, plenty. There's been plenty here on HN. TikTok's response was on the front page. Several news organizations have defended TikTok. Some have issued (non-editorial) pieces on both sides. There's a lot of talk of military, which is PR. Economics. Quite a lot of economics and how fast China is growing. That's PR too. How quickly China dealt with covid 19. That's PR too. So either this is trivial or impossible depending on your statement in parenthesis. > Now Muslim opinions on Muslims are irrelevant? HN has rules about acting in good faith. Willfully misrepresenting comments, trolling, and baiting are not allowed here. [0] [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html