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This is tangential.. As a European, I feel that we are too disconnected from this affair. Just as with the Ukrainian civil war and Crimean annexation, a big pa
by dalbasal 6y ago
This is tangential..
As a European, I feel that we are too disconnected from this affair. Just as with the Ukrainian civil war and Crimean annexation, a big part of this conflict is a conservative, repressive, Russia/Putin sponsored regime at odds with a population that identifies more with European/EU values... especially younger people.
Russia see the dignity, prosperity and freedom of several nations as trivial relative to their "vital concern" of having a buffer between them and "The West."
I'm not saying that we can or should escalate recklessly vis-a-vis Russia. I am saying that they are our neighbors too, not just Russia's. We have our interests too, and more importantly our solidarity. The Lukashenko regime is anachronistic, brutal and failed.
This is not a foreign affair.
I understand and even sympathize with Putin's concerns on encroachment. He lays them out clearly enough. I will also admit that mistakes have been made, and the the US played its hand too aggressively in the 1990s. I also think that the EU (and NATO, if the US is willing) should negotiate a peace treaty that addresses these. I also genuinely believe this is possible.
For that to happen though, we need to take a much firmer stance. We need to be as interested in our neighbors as Russia is. The whole premise of the EU is peace and sovereignty. Those values need to be represented here.
Ukraine was abused because of their desire to join the EU, and we treated it as above our paygrade. Now, Russia is openly propping up Lukashenko. Next year it will be Lithuania, Estonia. Putin might decide to intervene on behalf of Victor Orban. We're in this one way or another.
- qaq 6y ago"Ukrainian civil war" russian propaganda is doing it's job well
- nur0n 6y agoVice made a mind-blowing series on this if anyone wants to see with their own eyes: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLw613M86o5o7a0FGlPRdt47xiDiggbNsZ https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLw613M86o5o7a0FGlPRdt...
- YarickR2 6y ago"Russia bad" western propaganda does it's job even better
- odshoifsdhfs 6y agoUkraine yes, Belarus youth don't seem to align with EU that much. They just want a freaking democratic country. Most favour Russian values over EU ones. source: Current and previous gfs were Belarrusian and we had these discussions a lot (both before and after this whole thing) edit: And both parents of both women voted for lukashenko btw, as well as some of their friends (not saying he won or anything, but it isn't also like 100% are opposed to him)
- kazagistar 6y agoI'm still not even sure what Russian values even means.
- odshoifsdhfs 6y agoWhatever it means if you don't use the word 'values', basically they identify more with Russia than EU. The gp mentioned that they identify with EU values, and thus I used the same word.
- brabel 6y agoIt's very similar to the American values of the 1950's.
- dalbasal 6y agoI was probably being too casual with the term. I meant it in terms of identity, especially in politically adjacent ways.
- dalbasal 6y agoConflicts with what I've heard from Belarusians, but possibly a bias based on where those guys live (here in Ireland). That said, I don't think it really matters what how the average Belarusian sees it. Russia (specifically Putin, and probably many of his generation) sees a democratic revolution as 1989 stuff, and as a weakening of their "buffer." Nothing is ever 100% but I think it's likely that most want Lukashenko gone. We can't know for sure without a free election. That's the point. As I said, I do think mistakes were made in the past. Ukraine's simultaneous moves towards NATO and the EU were a bad idea, for world peace. That did not justify Russian intervention though, and it does not justify it now. It may even be for the best if the US stays at arms length. The EU, imo, should not. This concerns our interests and security just as much as it concerns Russia's.
- helge9210 6y ago>Russia-Ukraine war and Crimean occupation Here, fixed that for you.