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What Hobbes actually said: > To speak impartially, both sayings are very true; That Man to Man is a kind of God; and that Man to Man is an arrant Wolfe. The fi
by cousin_it 6y ago
What Hobbes actually said:
> To speak impartially, both sayings are very true; That Man to Man is a kind of God; and that Man to Man is an arrant Wolfe. The first is true, if we compare Citizens amongst themselves; and the second, if we compare Cities.
In other words, within a group we often see niceness, and between groups we often see nastiness - both are parts of human nature.
- mdorazio 6y agoIt's a pretty succinct description of the two sides of tribalism.
- luckylion 6y agoTo have a We, you need a They. An alien threat would be the best thing ever for human cooperation. I'm not sure whether the aliens need to be real, as long as they feel real.
- 082349872349872 6y agoSevere acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 is real, but apparently insufficiently alien? Or maybe too alien to suffice as a subanthropomorphisable They?
- luckylion 6y agoYeah, I think it has to be something that can be considered an enemy, not something that'll do us harm because that's how things are but has no mind of its own. A virus, diabetes or global warming aren't going to work as good (my intuition is that men need it to be an actual enemy more than women, but I have no idea). I do believe that e.g. Americans would be much more compliant in corona-mitigation-things like wearing masks if the narrative was "China has sent us a Virus to destroy us". But that would obviously also create serious issues because they'd demand revenge. A secretive alien enemy has sent us a Virus, and they're also trying to cook us alive by heating up our planet. Are you going to just let them do it to us, or will you stand up and fight for our way of life, against the intergalactic threat? Now that's a They that can provide a We for Team Humanity, Leaders Of The Free Universe.
- 082349872349872 6y agoWould you like to know more? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SMTz9nIUkGc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SMTz9nIUkGc
- samatman 6y agoNot nearly alien enough. Plague has co-evolved with human civilization, for reasons adequately explained in Guns, Germs and Steel, among other places. The ability to understand it, and take rational steps to mitigate it, is rather more new. SARS2 is arguably the first major pestilence to strike a human civilization which was coddled into the illusion that no such thing can happen to it. Our spectrum of responses to that are fairly predictable to a student of history, but mixed with the peculiar impotence of a people who thought they had the power to stop this sort of thing, and have discovered they do not.
- thatcat 6y agoPossibly actually alien, but people need something to look at or at least sense. so yea subanthropomorphisable. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24392814 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24392814
- libraryofbabel 6y agoThe actual nasty, brutish, and short quotation: > In such condition [the state of nature] there is no place for industry; because the fruit thereof is uncertain: and consequently no culture of the earth; no navigation, nor use of the commodities that may be imported by sea; no commodious building; no instruments of moving, and removing, such things as require much force; no knowledge of the face of the earth; no account of time; no arts; no letters; no society; and which is worst of all, continual fear, and danger of violent death; and the life of man, solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short.
- Eupolemos 6y agoAs a reply to a post saying that the quote was taken out of context, providing a second quote not related to the first quote is at best unhelpful. Or did I miss something obvious?