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Adam Curry launches a new, open podcast directory
- leahey 6y agoHe went full alt right. This is likely owing to the deletion of podcasts with hate speech. Just FYI.
- throwaway815190 6y agoGood. Everyone deserves a voice. Free speech and all that.
- mikece 6y agoThat’s the great thing about free speech: hate is overcome with more free speech.
- leahey 6y agoI agree. Governments should not impinge on speech.
- brnt 6y agoUnless it isn't, see various oppressive governments. Nazi-germany showed how to hack free speech into oppression through censorship, book-burning. Russia showed and continues to show how to use techniques like generating multiple low-effort angles to balkanize readership and lionize their time, thus sowing confusion and discord. China. Free speech won't and doesn't survive contact with the human race without an effective defence, and history shows merely counting on people to use more free speech leaves free speech and democracy open to coordinated brute force attacks.
- nailer 6y agoBook burning is the opposite of free speech. So is the great firewall of China. Russia chills speech with assassinations. Nearly all your examples are proving the opposite of your point.
- brnt 6y agoMy examples are not your examples, and your statements at best holds true for yours only. The point is that merely thinking saying free speech should be free is not enough. As you well illustrate, the debate on what exactly free speech is means we need to define what falls outside of it very clearly.
- exolymph 6y agoThe Nazis themselves were censored before seizing power, and some say it helped radicalize them. Maybe censorship doesn't work all that well at its ostensible purpose?
- ianleeclark 6y ago> The Nazis themselves were censored before seizing power, and some say it helped radicalize them. This is ahistorical. The only "censorship," they faced before they were granted power were in response to an attempted coup. They were radicalized prior to any censorship. There's just something that doesn't sit right with me about indicating that censorship lead to a radicalization of Nazis. Violent anti-Semitism has eternally been a problem in Europe and both Austrian and German nationalist parties were entrenched in such conspiracy. It was always a violent movement.
- brnt 6y agoThey used intimidation and book burnings to restrict freedom of expression long before they had any formal power. Look up the Sturm Abteilung.
- ianleeclark 6y agoRead my post again. I'm not saying the Nazis didn't censor.
- brnt 6y agoWhoops, sorry!
- modmans2nd 6y agoQanon and the explosion of all the other conspiracies and hate groups who use the internet to amplify and spread their message is proof that the solution to bad speech is no longer “More speech”. It’s been shown that fake information travels farther and faster than accurate information. https://www.pbs.org/newshour/science/false-news-travels-6-times-faster-on-twitter-than-truthful-news https://www.pbs.org/newshour/science/false-news-travels-6-ti...
- krapp 6y agoYeah. My grandfather used to tell me stories about his time speechifying the Nazis in Europe. Thank goodness Hitler was receptive to logical, well-sourced arguments.
- cies 6y agoFamiliar with the Paradox of Tolerance? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance I totally against allowing hate speech to be tolerated for this matter. Hitler was able to grow his power (and promoted hatred) while speech was still free. Once he had enough power, he reduced the freedom of speech. This is a counter example of how the paradox is real and hate is not necessarily overcome with more freedom.
- Cuuugi 6y agoAlternative non-hyperbolic view, he doesn't want to cede control of his invention to a single company? Fighting Apples dominance in podcasting control has to be sympathetic to marxists like you?
- filmgirlcw 6y agoExcept it isn’t his invention. I don’t want to rehash 2003 all over again, but it was a collaborative effort that included ideas from Curry, spec work from Dave Winer, and an iTunes pass-through script for downloading to an iPods from Kevin Marks.
- Cuuugi 6y agoOf course, i use "invention" fairly loosely there, but he was absolutely involved, and i would say it's more his invention than not. They call him the podfather for a reason. My overarching point remains the same.
- hairofadog 6y agoThanks for that non-hyperbolic view.
- core-questions 6y agoThe thing is, Apple and Spotify et al. have shown themselves to be willing to censor content in favour of Marxist views; so why would a Marxist fight them? Isn't it part of the playbook to use the existing means of production to harm itself?
- sdn20ns 6y agoWhat a baseless accusation. Did you even bother listening to the podcast linked in the article or consider that a centralized directory hosted by a major company might be cause for concern? Last I checked he does a current podcast with an ADOS member discussing everything from reparations to current events... Throwing this sort of stuff out there is irresponsible.
- leahey 6y agoYou not liking it != baseless. Similarly, hosting a podcast with a black person doesn’t, a priori, preclude you being alt right.
- sdn20ns 6y agoAnd similarly, throwing out the term “went full alt-right” without providing any references at all does not make something true/a responsible statement. I can see already that this is going to be a fruitless conversation based on feelings rather than evidence.
- leahey 6y ago>I can see already that this is going to be a fruitless conversation based on feelings rather than evidence. Knowing yourself is the first step. Thanks for the heads up.
- AndrewUnmuted 6y agoI am sure I'm not the only one who would actually appreciate some insight into where this accusation comes from. Not very familiar with the guy but have heard him on other podcasts before, and did not expect there to be such widespread distaste for him here. Can you help sort me & others out?
- mistermann 6y agoWhich of the many definitions of alt-right are you using?
- octopoc 6y agoDo you have a link for that? I've been listening to his Napoleon podcast and he seems left-leaning to me. They do talk about politics from time to time.
- leahey 6y agoGrab a No Agenda episode at random and give it a spin.
- oagboghi2 6y agoThat isn't proof of anything. Name an episode, give a time stamp, or stop the bullshit.
- mikece 6y agoNo Agenda is primarily media deconstruction. If you believe the media are telling you the truth, the full truth, and nothing but the truth then you'll hate the podcast.
- leahey 6y agoNote to others: this is just the line they reiterate on the show itself.
- mistermann 6y agoIt is that, but not just that - it is also true (to some degree). Or, are you under the impression that the media is truly independent and always tells the full truth in an unbiased manner, that no alternative media organization has ever legitimately exposed even a single mainstream narrative that was less than truthful?
- leahey 6y agoYeah I reckon you can't call one podcast an alt right conspiracy spew without believing "the media is truly independent and always tells the full truth in an unbiased manner, that no alternative media organization has ever legitimately exposed even a single mainstream narrative that was less than truthful."
- markkanof 6y agoWhat in your opinion does alt-right mean? I’d have a real hard time trying to apply my understanding of that term to Adam Curry.
- ciarannolan 6y agoHe said "black" instead of "African American" during a radio interview in 1983.
- nailer 6y ago> He went full alt right. Alt right is a term coined by Richard Spencer, who advocates for a white ethno state. Can you please post a link of Adam Curry advocating for this or holding similar positions? EDIT: I am aware HN etiquette is not to complain about downvotes, but it does seem very old that asking for evidence of a very serious accusation is downvoted. For those unfamiliar with the term - Wikipedia (which is generally considered left wing) states: > Groups which have been identified as alt-right also espouse white nationalism, white supremacism, white separatism, right-wing populism, tight immigration restrictions, racism, anti-communism, anti-Zionism, holocaust denial, xenophobia, antisemitism, antifeminism, homophobia, and islamophobia. If you have evidence of Curry holding the more extreme positions in that list (ie, excluding anti communism etc) that would be relevant too.
- css 6y agoI wonder how The Podcast Index will handle fraud. There are other directories that are similar in that they allow anyone to submit without moderation and that leads to spammers re-hosting other podcasts with ad insertion.
- filmgirlcw 6y agoYeah, fraud is a major reason other people don’t want to maintain their own directories. And I’m guessing there aren’t a lot of fraud provisions built into this by design. Because “open.”
- jasonlfunk 6y ago"Apple is starting to tinker with their directory" This is the first I'm hearing of it. What are have Apple been doing to their index?
- leahey 6y agohttps://www.theverge.com/2018/8/6/17655168/alex-jones-infowars-apple-itunes-podcasts-removed https://www.theverge.com/2018/8/6/17655168/alex-jones-infowa...
- adolph 6y ago“Podcasts that violate these guidelines are removed from our directory making them no longer searchable or available for download or streaming. We believe in representing a wide range of views, so long as people are respectful to those with differing opinions.” Anything not distributed will be used as a locus of control. The justification for the action is immaterial. The problem is that the action is possible at all.
- mikece 6y agoJoe Rogan's interviews with Tim Pool have covered corporate censorship in detail. Adam Curry and his co-host John C. Dvorak have also covered in detail on their podcast, the No Agenda Show, how a lot of this "censorship" on the part of corporations is a reaction to advertisers to demand brand-safety for their advertisements (eg: I don't want my ads showing up next to alt-right, pro-Trump content!) which is why Reddit banned The Donald and YouTube de-monitises videos that get even a little preachy or political. It's a real pickle for the companies because they are caught between bowing to their advertisers (which shareholder interest demands) and being free to the spirit of free speech in which they all believe. Separating the definitive index of podcasts from a corporate entity allows corporations to save face with their shareholders without removing discoverability for content creators who are considered not to be brand-safe.
- hutattedonmyarm 6y agoThey started an exclusive podcast (Apple News podcast) and had some weird workarounds to hide the rss feed url from the iTunes directory API. It's still based on RSS and the feed url got leaked, so you can subscribe it in any app which uses the directory (and has added the leaked url to their own database), but people are fearing that they might screw around in the ecosystem
- filmgirlcw 6y agoThis is one of those ideas that is good in theory until you look at how it will actually be used, as well as the actual problems it solves and doesn’t solve. For better or worse, Apple has been the defacto podcast directory for almost every podcasting app for over 15 years. In the aughts, a number of startups tried to take on that space (notably Odeo, which incubated and then pivoted into Twitter) and all of them failed. Apple has been largely an absentee steward, which has worked out well for podcasting. It wasn’t until Google decided to take podcasts seriously about five years ago and launched its own podcast directory. Spotify’s podcast directory started about five years ago too, though took longer to build momentum. All three are largely copies of one another — although Spotify has exclusives in its directory that can only be played in its app — and most major podcasts choose to submit their RSS feed to those directories, with some also choosing to share with other services (Stitcher, Luminary, etc.) that can do some fucked up stuff with the audio. It’s all a game of reach for a podcast publisher, unless you choose you don’t want Luminary or Stitcher to insert their own ads into your content — or you have an exclusive with some service or another. So now there is ostensibly yet another podcast directory, except it can’t offer a good value prop for existing except that it is “open” — which sounds good if you’re Alex Jones or you make content that has been kicked out of the other directories — but will realistically impact only a small number of podcasters. The target audience, I assume is podcatching apps. Right now, most of them scrape the Apple or Google podcasts directory to save the insanity of trying to maintain their own directory. So what value is there for this “open” directory to someone who has a podcatching app? Well, nothing unless there is a critical mass of podcasts submitted. Moreover, the service says it’s free, but is also asking for donations, which makes me worry about the viability of the index longterm. Given how difficult the market is for creating a third-party podcasting client when Google, Apple, and Spotify exist with their own apps and established indies (Overcast), I would strongly discourage anyone from building their own podcatcher as anything more than a hobby project. So what’s the point? Podcasters will still have to submit to the major indexes anyway and podcatchers or client apps already have enough problems without having to worry about a little-used alternative that doesn’t have a business plan associated with it. I’m all for open and I’m not mad this exists — but I certainly wouldn’t build my app off its API.
- StephenSmith 6y ago
- flerchin 6y agoI remember when he did this 15 years ago. He hosted fraudulently uploaded podcasts with ad-inserts. Along with his podcast network that literally stole the names from several of the biggest podcasts at the time through their Podshow Contract. This looks to be exactly the same. Scammers gonna scam.
- flerchin 6y agoIs unfortunately behind a paywall, but this podcast details the scam at the time. http://www.keithandthegirl.com/show-detail/251/the-podshow-contract.aspx http://www.keithandthegirl.com/show-detail/251/the-podshow-c...
- filmgirlcw 6y agoOh yeah I remember this too! Good times. ETA: was his the venture backed startup that hired Scoble until they ran out of money or was that something else Edit 2: the Scoble podcast VC thing was different. But it too went up in flames in spectacular Web 2.0 fashion.
- leahey 6y agoMeevio?
- apatters 6y agoYeah, it was very different from Uber's fraudulent taxi service and Theranos' fraudulent everything. Where where were the billionaire investors and sycophantic press?
- runako 6y agoFrom Curry's Wikipedia page: "In late 2005 Curry was caught making anonymous edits to the Podcast Wikipedia page, deleting several sections concerning contributions made by fellow podcasting pioneers, Kevin Marks and Stephen Downes, while adding material that emphasized his own involvement with the development of the medium." Edit: the entry goes on to quote Curry in a context where he admits performing the indicated edits.
- cowmix 6y agoNot a huge Curry fan but I'm REALLY not a fan of the co-host of his podcast. I have been reading John C Dvorak, in real-time, since the mid-80s. I challenge you to find someone so consistently wrong about technology and be wrong in the most douchebag way possible.
- alexfromapex 6y agoI was excited when I saw the name because I thought it was about Kubernetes but it’s just a pun about podcasts...womp womp
- alexfromapex 6y agoSeriously amazed at the downvotes I get on this site for simple comments like this. What warrants the downvotes?
- alexfromapex 6y agothanks assholes just delete me I'm done with this toxic community
- ghaff 6y agoDvorak was at least interesting back in the 80s even if he was (often) wrong--sometimes spectacularly so--about some things. But at some point, he became way more about being controversial and curmudgeonly than he did about even trying to be insightful.
- jzl 6y agoHis most infamous: https://www.marketwatch.com/story/apple-should-pull-the-plug-on-the-iphone https://www.marketwatch.com/story/apple-should-pull-the-plug...
- pkamb 6y agoAND he messes up the search results for my keyboard layout!
- 6y ago
- book-sandworm 6y agoGave Adam Curry's content (No agenda) a shot a couple of years ago. They created content that was at least flirting with creating their own dimension (figuratively). It seemed more like they were interested in their ego's then actually doing real research. To me it seemed fuel for unfounded conspiracies and provoking for provocation sake. Not sure how people this disconnected with the rest of the world are able to create an "open podcast directory". Pretty much seams like there is a platform wars going on when it comes to podcast. Looking what youtube did to video content as a platform I think companies like Spotify (Gimlit) smell blood when it comes to podcasting. Think that would be a shame for that industry, podcasting collectives like Radiotopia are awesome because of that, they have to lean on quality and content. Not on some fancy algorithm that tries to keep you engaged as long as possible. Looking at the content he creates, seems like the complete opposite. What made podcasts awesome was that the platform was fairly neutral (rss feed). Yes you have Apple podcasts, but I don't know anyone that really likes podcasts and still uses that app.
- pokstad 6y agoI use Apple Podcasts for simplicity. Is there a better app that still enables Indie self hosted podcasts to proliferate? I’ve never run into any problems with Apple Podcasts, it’s a low tech solution for a low tech problem.
- leahey 6y agoOvercast is cool (http://www.overcast.fm http://www.overcast.fm)
- specialist 6y agoOvercast is my current choice. (For iOS, I don't have Android so can't comment.) I tried them all. I don't particularly like any of them. I've requested a feature and reported a bug via their Slack. I'm hopeful they'll get added and fixed, respectively. I still don't have a way to easily binge on some large archives. Like History of Philosophy without any Gaps. https://historyofphilosophy.net https://historyofphilosophy.net And Malcolm Gladwell's Revisionist History doesn't sort correctly in any podcast client I've tried, making it even harder to binge. What I really want is a NetNewsWire (RSS client) that can play audio (directly). I also want client-side metrics and listening history. To help me remember when I heard something, better determine if I'm actually listening to misc content, etc.
- normaldist 6y agoThis sounds like a huge headache, but their heart is in the right place. Premium/non-RSS "podcasts" are a terrible experience.
- brian_herman__ 6y agoHere is a link to the actual site: https://podcastindex.org/ https://podcastindex.org/
- vzaliva 6y agoYears ago I was listening for one of early seasons of DSC for a year or so and it was kind of fun. Few years later I've looked him up and his new show has totally different vibe: grumpy old men with questionable political agenda. From DSC days I reckon he was a good entertainer but sucked in business. Hence I have little exepctations for his new venture.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- modmans2nd 6y agoMeh.... he’s a conspiracy crank
- snori74 6y agoI was excited for a moment, because I was a listener of his "Daily show" way-back-when distinctly remember when Apple got on board for example. At the time he was legitimately a pioneer of the technology, terminology and the medium. Unfortunately/fortunately? I'd pretty much not tracked him for 15+ years, so had forgotten what a sleazy Bagshot crazy he's become. Sad.
- hwj 6y agoThere is also https://fyyd.de https://fyyd.de (it is integrated into https://antennapod.org https://antennapod.org).