6 ms·

That always seemed like fair game to me. If only we could have the one big warranty split into smaller warranties for each part of the car, so tampering one par

by belval 6y ago

That always seemed like fair game to me. If only we could have the one big warranty split into smaller warranties for each part of the car, so tampering one part of it doesn't void the entire warranty.

SifJar 6y ago
That sounds nice in theory, but I imagine in practice it's a bit trickier - presumably there are plenty of cases in which modifying one part of the car could cause damage to another, unmodified part. How do you figure out if any seemingly unrelated modifications are responsible for the malfunction etc.?
- throwaway0a5e 6y ago
  Except for a few edge cases at the margins those cascading failures are pretty obvious when they happen. Every other OEM has already had to confront this reality and every other OEM publishes upfitter guides for their vehicles so that the aftermarket knows what to do and what not to do. Every other OEM also lets the dealer network exercise most of the judgement regarding warranty and they mostly do a good enough job.
- CogitoCogito 6y ago
  > How do you figure out if any seemingly unrelated modifications are responsible for the malfunction etc.? A judgement call is made? If Tesla could provide evidence that you are the one that caused the damage, then of course the warranty shouldn't apply.
  - gameswithgo 6y ago
    In real life the way you figure it out is the dealer just does what they want and you deal with it, unless you have time to take them to court over it.
  - gambiting 6y ago
    That's a solved problem - you get an independent expert to investigate and give their opinion.
- linuxftw 6y ago
  Burden of proof is on the manufacturer, not the owner. Get a second opinion, take them to a small claims court. Most likely, they will not have any technical data to back up their bogus claim, you win.
jpgvm 6y ago
The car is certified as a whole and warranty is then offered on it as a whole. Individual components when modified will affect the system as a whole. For instance modifying the battery pack to supply a higher peak current will increase the max performance of the motor but did you void the warranty of the battery, the motor or both?
- gambiting 6y ago
  I mean, your logic is sound, but that's not how car warranties work in EU or the US for that matter. Car manufacturers can only void warranty on parts directly affected by your modification, and they actually have to prove that the part broke because of the modification, it just being present is not enough to void the warranty. I know of a case where the engine on a new Audi RS6 died, and Audi refused the warranty claim because a custom exhaust has been fitted, claiming that it affected the operation of the engine and destroyed it. The case went to court and Audi was unable to prove how a custom exhaust could cause the crankshaft to snap in the middle - and the court ordered them to pay for repair. There's loads of nonsense around this, with dealership frequently telling customers that if they fit their own parts they lose the entire warranty - nope, that's just not the case at all. Using your own oil, filters, brake pads and other consumable items does not void your warranty as long as they are "equivalent" items. I even heard a dealership tell a customer once that fitting tyres without manufacturer approval(MO in this case) would void the warranty - I told them that if that's the case, why is their own parts department selling entire sets of them as "original Mercedes accessories" then. The truth is it's bullshit, that's just not how warranties work.
  - jpgvm 6y ago
    That makes more sense in a traditional car, less sense in something like a Tesla which has much fewer components and a higher level of integration. There just aren't many user serviceable components in a Tesla. It's basically a computer, a battery and an eletric motor with a body sat on top.
sokoloff 6y ago
(Assuming you're in the US,) You're already in luck. Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act has been ruled to preserve the warranty for unrelated failures on modified vehicles. https://www.sema.org/sema-enews/2011/01/ftc-validates-right-to-install-aftermarket-parts#:~:text=%E2%80%9CUnder%20the%20Magnuson%2DMoss%20Warranty,are%20provided%20free%20of%20charge.%E2%80%9D&text=The%20warranty%20remains%20in%20effect%20for%20all%20other%20covered%20parts https://www.sema.org/sema-enews/2011/01/ftc-validates-right-.... It's not perfect because anything that increases the power of the car could be argued fairly convincingly to have contributed to the failure of another driveline component, but if you increase the power on the car, your windshield washers and trunk opener (as examples) are still covered as before.

by belval 6y ago

SifJar 6y ago

That sounds nice in theory, but I imagine in practice it's a bit trickier - presumably there are plenty of cases in which modifying one part of the car could cause damage to another, unmodified part. How do you figure out if any seemingly unrelated modifications are responsible for the malfunction etc.?

throwaway0a5e 6y ago
Except for a few edge cases at the margins those cascading failures are pretty obvious when they happen. Every other OEM has already had to confront this reality and every other OEM publishes upfitter guides for their vehicles so that the aftermarket knows what to do and what not to do. Every other OEM also lets the dealer network exercise most of the judgement regarding warranty and they mostly do a good enough job.
CogitoCogito 6y ago
> How do you figure out if any seemingly unrelated modifications are responsible for the malfunction etc.? A judgement call is made? If Tesla could provide evidence that you are the one that caused the damage, then of course the warranty shouldn't apply.
- gameswithgo 6y ago
  In real life the way you figure it out is the dealer just does what they want and you deal with it, unless you have time to take them to court over it.
- gambiting 6y ago
  That's a solved problem - you get an independent expert to investigate and give their opinion.
linuxftw 6y ago
Burden of proof is on the manufacturer, not the owner. Get a second opinion, take them to a small claims court. Most likely, they will not have any technical data to back up their bogus claim, you win.

jpgvm 6y ago

The car is certified as a whole and warranty is then offered on it as a whole. Individual components when modified will affect the system as a whole. For instance modifying the battery pack to supply a higher peak current will increase the max performance of the motor but did you void the warranty of the battery, the motor or both?

gambiting 6y ago
I mean, your logic is sound, but that's not how car warranties work in EU or the US for that matter. Car manufacturers can only void warranty on parts directly affected by your modification, and they actually have to prove that the part broke because of the modification, it just being present is not enough to void the warranty. I know of a case where the engine on a new Audi RS6 died, and Audi refused the warranty claim because a custom exhaust has been fitted, claiming that it affected the operation of the engine and destroyed it. The case went to court and Audi was unable to prove how a custom exhaust could cause the crankshaft to snap in the middle - and the court ordered them to pay for repair. There's loads of nonsense around this, with dealership frequently telling customers that if they fit their own parts they lose the entire warranty - nope, that's just not the case at all. Using your own oil, filters, brake pads and other consumable items does not void your warranty as long as they are "equivalent" items. I even heard a dealership tell a customer once that fitting tyres without manufacturer approval(MO in this case) would void the warranty - I told them that if that's the case, why is their own parts department selling entire sets of them as "original Mercedes accessories" then. The truth is it's bullshit, that's just not how warranties work.
- jpgvm 6y ago
  That makes more sense in a traditional car, less sense in something like a Tesla which has much fewer components and a higher level of integration. There just aren't many user serviceable components in a Tesla. It's basically a computer, a battery and an eletric motor with a body sat on top.

sokoloff 6y ago

(Assuming you're in the US,) You're already in luck. Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act has been ruled to preserve the warranty for unrelated failures on modified vehicles. https://www.sema.org/sema-enews/2011/01/ftc-validates-right-to-install-aftermarket-parts#:~:text=%E2%80%9CUnder%20the%20Magnuson%2DMoss%20Warranty,are%20provided%20free%20of%20charge.%E2%80%9D&text=The%20warranty%20remains%20in%20effect%20for%20all%20other%20covered%20parts https://www.sema.org/sema-enews/2011/01/ftc-validates-right-.... It's not perfect because anything that increases the power of the car could be argued fairly convincingly to have contributed to the failure of another driveline component, but if you increase the power on the car, your windshield washers and trunk opener (as examples) are still covered as before.