3 ms·

This is why I feel that the “China steals all its tech” argument to be facile US propaganda. Simply having the tech secrets is a small slice of the pie when bui

This is why I feel that the “China steals all its tech” argument to be facile US propaganda. Simply having the tech secrets is a small slice of the pie when building a business. If those people were right, little weak Taiwan is somehow able to withstand the force of Chinese industrial spy agencies to learn its secrets. That’s idiotic. China has vastly more resources and could easily get the secrets if it wanted. The fact is, building great processor manufacturing is extremely hard and knowledge has to be developed within to overcome future hurdles.

azinman2 6y ago
Not everything is like that (most things aren't), and stealing information always gives you a big head start if you're starting from scratch.
- wahern 6y ago
  > stealing information always gives you a big head start if you're starting from scratch. That's like saying cheating in school makes you smarter and more capable. That might sometimes be true, for example if it helps you reallocate resources more efficiently, but its highly context dependent. There exists a biased, Western narrative that casts Chinese and East Asians in general as incapable of originality or novelty; that all they do is copy the hard work of Westerners. This is less true of Japan or Taiwan today, but it was very much true of Japan throughout the 1970s and of Taiwan throughout the 1990s. If we stand back and take an objective look at how industrial and scientific "copying" actually works in practice throughout the world, including among the leading industrial nations, I think it would show the China narrative to be exaggerated. Moreover, the narrative, whether true or not, is dangerous. It causes us to underestimate their prowess, and to the extent we assume that by disengaging and preventing copycat behavior we'll stave off a rising China, we're in for a huge surprise. Not only will China continue to rise, but in setting up an Us vs. Them world we'll have accomplished part of their Divide & Conquer strategy that China will inevitably (and, indeed, already has begun to) employ. And the risks will be greater as without strong bilateral ties--including ties that appeal to the self-interests (e.g. money) of powerful domestic organizations--resort to military aggression becomes a more prominent and easier option for both sides.[1] [1] Why did the U.S. invade (a 2nd time) and then conquer Iraq, and is constantly on the verge of war with Iran? Because sanctions don't just cut off a country from the U.S., they cut off the U.S. from that country, which means there's no domestic political pressure to avoid war beyond the enlightened beliefs of a diminishing minority. That's why Saudi Arabia constantly gets a free pass--because of the strong U.S. business interests in Saudi Arabia, not merely because of oil, per se, of which there exists plenty of alternatives around the world. Similarly, it's also why Saudi Arabia has always been much more circumspect with their support for terrorism, which is something worthwhile as Saudi Arabia might otherwise provide much greater support for terrorist organizations if they weren't so concerned with protecting their American relationships.
redis_mlc 6y ago
> This is why I feel that the “China steals all its tech” argument to be facile US propaganda. So very wrong. China created the Thousand Talents Plan, with more than 7,000 overseas participants currently, to spy globally. Most of the recent US university and NASA arrests are related to that. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thousand_Talents_Plan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thousand_Talents_Plan Mainland Chinese people and the CCP don't believe their current system incentivizes workers to invent, hence the above program. And the obligatory useful idiot link for you: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Useful_idiot https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Useful_idiot

azinman2 6y ago

Not everything is like that (most things aren't), and stealing information always gives you a big head start if you're starting from scratch.

wahern 6y ago
> stealing information always gives you a big head start if you're starting from scratch. That's like saying cheating in school makes you smarter and more capable. That might sometimes be true, for example if it helps you reallocate resources more efficiently, but its highly context dependent. There exists a biased, Western narrative that casts Chinese and East Asians in general as incapable of originality or novelty; that all they do is copy the hard work of Westerners. This is less true of Japan or Taiwan today, but it was very much true of Japan throughout the 1970s and of Taiwan throughout the 1990s. If we stand back and take an objective look at how industrial and scientific "copying" actually works in practice throughout the world, including among the leading industrial nations, I think it would show the China narrative to be exaggerated. Moreover, the narrative, whether true or not, is dangerous. It causes us to underestimate their prowess, and to the extent we assume that by disengaging and preventing copycat behavior we'll stave off a rising China, we're in for a huge surprise. Not only will China continue to rise, but in setting up an Us vs. Them world we'll have accomplished part of their Divide & Conquer strategy that China will inevitably (and, indeed, already has begun to) employ. And the risks will be greater as without strong bilateral ties--including ties that appeal to the self-interests (e.g. money) of powerful domestic organizations--resort to military aggression becomes a more prominent and easier option for both sides.[1] [1] Why did the U.S. invade (a 2nd time) and then conquer Iraq, and is constantly on the verge of war with Iran? Because sanctions don't just cut off a country from the U.S., they cut off the U.S. from that country, which means there's no domestic political pressure to avoid war beyond the enlightened beliefs of a diminishing minority. That's why Saudi Arabia constantly gets a free pass--because of the strong U.S. business interests in Saudi Arabia, not merely because of oil, per se, of which there exists plenty of alternatives around the world. Similarly, it's also why Saudi Arabia has always been much more circumspect with their support for terrorism, which is something worthwhile as Saudi Arabia might otherwise provide much greater support for terrorist organizations if they weren't so concerned with protecting their American relationships.

redis_mlc 6y ago

> This is why I feel that the “China steals all its tech” argument to be facile US propaganda. So very wrong. China created the Thousand Talents Plan, with more than 7,000 overseas participants currently, to spy globally. Most of the recent US university and NASA arrests are related to that. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thousand_Talents_Plan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thousand_Talents_Plan Mainland Chinese people and the CCP don't believe their current system incentivizes workers to invent, hence the above program. And the obligatory useful idiot link for you: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Useful_idiot https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Useful_idiot