8 ms·

I am pretty lucky that I only have to transfer money to between 2 countries that have heavily linked banking systems (US -> Canada), but I am not entirely sure

I am pretty lucky that I only have to transfer money to between 2 countries that have heavily linked banking systems (US -> Canada), but I am not entirely sure what Bitcoin would get me in terms of transferring money. The fees are quite small on Transferwise, and also, I have…I don’t know what you want to call it…accountability? Reversibility? Reliability? Whatever fee I have to pay, the fact I get a known third-party with a papertrail is peace of mind.

captainmuon 6y ago
Some time ago I had a bunch of Chinese yuan on a Chinese account that I wanted to transfer to Europe. I couldn't do a wire transfer, and I couldn't bring them as cash since my German bank didn't want them. I could either pull 500 € a day via ATM (with large fees), or just send it via Bitcoin.
- riffraff 6y ago
  Why couldn't you do a wire transfer?
  - bmn__ 6y ago
    Before 2009, export of RMB was completely prohibited. Afterwards, some restrictions were lifted, but AIUI they do not apply to J. Random Laowai.
    - Bayart 6y ago
      Nowadays, can people even have bank accounts in their names in China without Chinese ID ?
  - GoblinSlayer 6y ago
    Fiat financial systems are full of most arbitrary restrictions. My anecdote: I once wanted to deposit money, came to a bank, gave them a bank card, They: What is this? Me: Money. They: No, bring money.
Muromec 6y ago
It’s great to live a in developed world during the peace time. Sometimes you have to transfer money in and out of the country at war with it’s currency in free fall and capital controls in place. At times like that “normal” ways take about 30% of the sum as transactional overhead, while bitcoin doesn’t. Sometimes “normal“ ways just don’t work normally. Sometimes your government is actively working against your ability to transfer your money for whatever reason — be it drug laws or capital controls or what not. Sometimes you enter account number into the “normal“ system and field just turns red for no reason at all. Sometimes you have your access to “normal“ system severely restricted because of your legal status and residency rights. So yeah transferring money between Canada and US being resident of either of them and not doing anything funny — is not a use case for Bitcoin.
- adamsea 6y ago
  Does this hypothetical situation you describe exist anywhere outside of the hypothetical situation posited by a character in a Neal Stephenson novel? Seriously in reality the specifics of any sort of wild situation like the one you describe matter. Which countries? Which currency? Which kind of illegal behavior? And (I ask out of ignorance) in this scenario you describe why would whatever group managing whatever bitcoin exchange or whatever is being used remain virtuous and not charge a 30% markup themselves?
  - wheels 6y ago
    I, for example, have friends that use Bitcoin to move money in and out of Zimbabwe.
  - fit2rule 6y ago
    Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Syria, Libya, Iran, Kosovo, Venezuela, El Salvador: these are all places where war and strife and economic turmoil and the Wests' sanctions have led a significant number of their citizens to use Bitcoin - and other cryptocurrencies - to manage their lives and feed themselves, and their families. It beggars belief that someone would so callously call the situation in these countries 'hypothetical'. Please, inform yourself about the war and strife that is occurring outside your own bubble. Its very important that we in the West stop ignoring the plight of the people our military industrial complex is targeting with their weapons. Bitcoin has held things together in many such places. Also: Russia.
deevolution 6y ago
I don't know if "reliable" is a good word for the legacy banking system. The banks in Cyprus for example siezed money from peoples accounts only a few years ago... its much harder for banks to seize bitcoin that you self-custody. Many wealthy people and now companies are beginning to view bitcoin as a safe haven asset because of its decentralized security model and censorship/seizure resistant properties. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012%E2%80%932013_Cypriot_financial_crisis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012%E2%80%932013_Cypriot_fina...
- tomfern 6y ago
  Argentina did exactly that on 2001. Life savings stolen forever. To this day, most people save their dollars in their houses because no one trust banks in the long term.
centimeter 6y ago
It sounds like A) you don't deal with very much money B) you don't travel much outside the first world. Bitcoin was the backstop that saved my ass when I went to SE Asia and none of my first-class Australian or US bank cards would let me get cash.

captainmuon 6y ago

Some time ago I had a bunch of Chinese yuan on a Chinese account that I wanted to transfer to Europe. I couldn't do a wire transfer, and I couldn't bring them as cash since my German bank didn't want them. I could either pull 500 € a day via ATM (with large fees), or just send it via Bitcoin.

riffraff 6y ago
Why couldn't you do a wire transfer?
- bmn__ 6y ago
  Before 2009, export of RMB was completely prohibited. Afterwards, some restrictions were lifted, but AIUI they do not apply to J. Random Laowai.
  - Bayart 6y ago
    Nowadays, can people even have bank accounts in their names in China without Chinese ID ?
- GoblinSlayer 6y ago
  Fiat financial systems are full of most arbitrary restrictions. My anecdote: I once wanted to deposit money, came to a bank, gave them a bank card, They: What is this? Me: Money. They: No, bring money.

Muromec 6y ago

It’s great to live a in developed world during the peace time. Sometimes you have to transfer money in and out of the country at war with it’s currency in free fall and capital controls in place. At times like that “normal” ways take about 30% of the sum as transactional overhead, while bitcoin doesn’t. Sometimes “normal“ ways just don’t work normally. Sometimes your government is actively working against your ability to transfer your money for whatever reason — be it drug laws or capital controls or what not. Sometimes you enter account number into the “normal“ system and field just turns red for no reason at all. Sometimes you have your access to “normal“ system severely restricted because of your legal status and residency rights. So yeah transferring money between Canada and US being resident of either of them and not doing anything funny — is not a use case for Bitcoin.

adamsea 6y ago
Does this hypothetical situation you describe exist anywhere outside of the hypothetical situation posited by a character in a Neal Stephenson novel? Seriously in reality the specifics of any sort of wild situation like the one you describe matter. Which countries? Which currency? Which kind of illegal behavior? And (I ask out of ignorance) in this scenario you describe why would whatever group managing whatever bitcoin exchange or whatever is being used remain virtuous and not charge a 30% markup themselves?
- wheels 6y ago
  I, for example, have friends that use Bitcoin to move money in and out of Zimbabwe.
- fit2rule 6y ago
  Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Syria, Libya, Iran, Kosovo, Venezuela, El Salvador: these are all places where war and strife and economic turmoil and the Wests' sanctions have led a significant number of their citizens to use Bitcoin - and other cryptocurrencies - to manage their lives and feed themselves, and their families. It beggars belief that someone would so callously call the situation in these countries 'hypothetical'. Please, inform yourself about the war and strife that is occurring outside your own bubble. Its very important that we in the West stop ignoring the plight of the people our military industrial complex is targeting with their weapons. Bitcoin has held things together in many such places. Also: Russia.

deevolution 6y ago

I don't know if "reliable" is a good word for the legacy banking system. The banks in Cyprus for example siezed money from peoples accounts only a few years ago... its much harder for banks to seize bitcoin that you self-custody. Many wealthy people and now companies are beginning to view bitcoin as a safe haven asset because of its decentralized security model and censorship/seizure resistant properties. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012%E2%80%932013_Cypriot_financial_crisis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012%E2%80%932013_Cypriot_fina...

tomfern 6y ago
Argentina did exactly that on 2001. Life savings stolen forever. To this day, most people save their dollars in their houses because no one trust banks in the long term.

centimeter 6y ago

It sounds like A) you don't deal with very much money B) you don't travel much outside the first world. Bitcoin was the backstop that saved my ass when I went to SE Asia and none of my first-class Australian or US bank cards would let me get cash.