7 ms·

> I saw it was entirely a matter of feel Depends, I guess, on where you're starting from. Some people know how hard you should/shouldn't push on a 10mm spanner

> I saw it was entirely a matter of feel Depends, I guess, on where you're starting from. Some people know how hard you should/shouldn't push on a 10mm spanner or a 6mm allen key. That kind of "matter of feel" comes from someone who's already got it showing you and letting you feel it, or from a trail of stripped bolts and/or crashes where your brakes failed or fell off 'cause you didn't torque them up tight enough... In person expertise is not essential, but I do think launching into repairing your own brakes is perhaps the _worst_ example of something you should learn from Youtube... (Although adjusting bicycle brake cables is not nearly as bad an example as, say, removing callipers and swapping out brake pads on a motorcycle...) If you can find someone to help teach you, it's well worth the pizza and beer it usually costs...

brudgers 6y ago
I suspect you haven't replaced CV joints using a Chilton's Manual. Bicycles are easy. They don't require force or working overhead in a tight space next to a hot shop light, and don't leak fluids into puddles with your face in between. They're not scary except in the sense that someone doesn't have expertise. There's nothing there that can't be done right by trial and error and mechanical reasoning. It just takes putting it together wrong and taking it apart a few times until its right. Anyone can overhaul a bike in four days.
- bigiain 6y ago
  Uhhh, yeah I have. More often using Haines Manual. But I've done CVs on 69 and 72 Beetles, a bunch of early 70s Leyland Mini race cars, two different late 80s Suzuki Swifts, late 90s Ford Laser, and Alfa Romeo Sud and a Sprint, and a 2005-ish RAV4. I've also totally stripped and rebuilt several VW Beetle motors (and a Kombi one), a 13B Mazda rotary (which ended up in the 72 Beetle eventually), and my Ducati Monster 900 (engine/gearbox). I own one motorcycle that needs a new top end rebuild every 10,000km (A Cagiva Mito 125cc two stroke). I've done the desmo valve clearances on that Ducati every 20,000km since 1999 (it's got over 320,000km on it now.) So I'm not particularly scared of most mechanical things (I'm more put off by the pains of a 50year old body crouching down next to a motorcycle in the cold these days than worried about working on the mechanical stuff...) But I _am_ acutely aware that many (most?) people didn't have fathers who taught them how to work on cars/lawnmowers when they were 7 or 8 years old, and have no clue at all how tight fasteners should be or much force you can put on them before starting to worry about whether you need to start checking if you've missed the lock nut or split pin. People who have no feel for whats "About right" for a 10mm fastener compared to a 17mm or 32mm one. People who don't read a torque spec of 10Nm for an M6 fastener and realise "Oooh, that's not very tight, must be a stainless fastener into a soft-ish allow..." I _strongly_ stand by my advice of making a more experienced friend and having them oversee things and be there for when you're not sure if you're doing things right.
  - twic 6y ago
    But did you win the Putnam?
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - strogonoff 6y ago
    I am now unfortunately in a location where it is non-trivial to befriend a person to shadow like that (language barrier etc.), but thanks for thoughtful advice. Pizza/beer point noted!
    - bigiain 6y ago
      Ahhh, Covidtown? Yeah, I have that problem too...
  - brudgers 6y ago
    yeah I have. So it’s possible to perform a new mechanical operation without a personal guide present? For VW’s Haines is definitely better. I had both for my 64. No CV joints on that one. Swing axel. And static timing. Which is an example of trial and error and eyeballing. That’s essentially how the Haines described it.
    - bigiain 6y ago
      > So it’s possible to perform a new mechanical operation without a personal guide present? Oh sure. But I reckon learning the 4th, 5th, 100th new thing is _way_ less learning curve than learning the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd things. It's that early steep learning curve of all the assumed knowledge that Haines/Chilton/Ducati workshop manuals where a workshop buddy is hugely beneficial. Happy to disagree on this. But I also will continue to recommend finding a more experienced person to help out when you're starting out, and will regularly offer to be "that guy" for people who show interest. (Also, didn't the '64 still have inboard CV joints? My '69 had the "two joint rear end" with CVs up against the transaxle but none at the wheel hubs and the bendy trailing arms (according to most info that means it was probably a '68, but it had a 1969 Australian compliance plate of it :shrug:). The '72 had the four joint rear end.
- strogonoff 6y ago
  My concern with trial and error is that from lack of experience I might ruin the expensive parts (perhaps over time) or make the bike unsafe to ride.
  - brudgers 6y ago
    Don’t be afraid. It’s only a bicycle. Parts can be replaced. The whole bike can be.
    - strogonoff 6y ago
      Perhaps you can easily replace hundreds of dollars in parts but I’d rather avoid that. Besides, as I wrote, if my bike fails during an aggressive ride, replacing its parts might be the least of my problems.
      - brudgers 6y ago
        Genuinely curious how frequently the bike is ridden aggressively, who maintains it, and how frequently they do so. For my own safety, I try not to ride aggressively, but I do ride frequently and maintain my own bike so I don't have an intuition about your experience. By trial and error, I mean small scale and safely. Like truing a wheel. Spin, adjust, spin, adjust, spin, adjust...and eventually the wheel is true. That's when it's ok to ride on it. Brakes and bearings are spin, adjust, spin, adjust too. The difference experience makes is fewer spin, adjust loops to get it right enough to ride on.
        strogonoff 6y ago
        I often ride a little (or a lot) faster than the situation calls for in urban context and rely on emergency braking. The bike I bought at a dealership is just a couple months old and no maintenance work had been done so far. I am feeling it’s about time for some adjustments (rim brakes are accumulating some leeway now), and thought I could as well replace some parts while at it and start to learn how to put together a fully custom ride (to use the skill in future after I move to a more permanent location).

brudgers 6y ago

I suspect you haven't replaced CV joints using a Chilton's Manual. Bicycles are easy. They don't require force or working overhead in a tight space next to a hot shop light, and don't leak fluids into puddles with your face in between. They're not scary except in the sense that someone doesn't have expertise. There's nothing there that can't be done right by trial and error and mechanical reasoning. It just takes putting it together wrong and taking it apart a few times until its right. Anyone can overhaul a bike in four days.

bigiain 6y ago
Uhhh, yeah I have. More often using Haines Manual. But I've done CVs on 69 and 72 Beetles, a bunch of early 70s Leyland Mini race cars, two different late 80s Suzuki Swifts, late 90s Ford Laser, and Alfa Romeo Sud and a Sprint, and a 2005-ish RAV4. I've also totally stripped and rebuilt several VW Beetle motors (and a Kombi one), a 13B Mazda rotary (which ended up in the 72 Beetle eventually), and my Ducati Monster 900 (engine/gearbox). I own one motorcycle that needs a new top end rebuild every 10,000km (A Cagiva Mito 125cc two stroke). I've done the desmo valve clearances on that Ducati every 20,000km since 1999 (it's got over 320,000km on it now.) So I'm not particularly scared of most mechanical things (I'm more put off by the pains of a 50year old body crouching down next to a motorcycle in the cold these days than worried about working on the mechanical stuff...) But I _am_ acutely aware that many (most?) people didn't have fathers who taught them how to work on cars/lawnmowers when they were 7 or 8 years old, and have no clue at all how tight fasteners should be or much force you can put on them before starting to worry about whether you need to start checking if you've missed the lock nut or split pin. People who have no feel for whats "About right" for a 10mm fastener compared to a 17mm or 32mm one. People who don't read a torque spec of 10Nm for an M6 fastener and realise "Oooh, that's not very tight, must be a stainless fastener into a soft-ish allow..." I _strongly_ stand by my advice of making a more experienced friend and having them oversee things and be there for when you're not sure if you're doing things right.
- twic 6y ago
  But did you win the Putnam?
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- strogonoff 6y ago
  I am now unfortunately in a location where it is non-trivial to befriend a person to shadow like that (language barrier etc.), but thanks for thoughtful advice. Pizza/beer point noted!
  - bigiain 6y ago
    Ahhh, Covidtown? Yeah, I have that problem too...
- brudgers 6y ago
  yeah I have. So it’s possible to perform a new mechanical operation without a personal guide present? For VW’s Haines is definitely better. I had both for my 64. No CV joints on that one. Swing axel. And static timing. Which is an example of trial and error and eyeballing. That’s essentially how the Haines described it.
  - bigiain 6y ago
    > So it’s possible to perform a new mechanical operation without a personal guide present? Oh sure. But I reckon learning the 4th, 5th, 100th new thing is _way_ less learning curve than learning the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd things. It's that early steep learning curve of all the assumed knowledge that Haines/Chilton/Ducati workshop manuals where a workshop buddy is hugely beneficial. Happy to disagree on this. But I also will continue to recommend finding a more experienced person to help out when you're starting out, and will regularly offer to be "that guy" for people who show interest. (Also, didn't the '64 still have inboard CV joints? My '69 had the "two joint rear end" with CVs up against the transaxle but none at the wheel hubs and the bendy trailing arms (according to most info that means it was probably a '68, but it had a 1969 Australian compliance plate of it :shrug:). The '72 had the four joint rear end.
strogonoff 6y ago
My concern with trial and error is that from lack of experience I might ruin the expensive parts (perhaps over time) or make the bike unsafe to ride.
- brudgers 6y ago
  Don’t be afraid. It’s only a bicycle. Parts can be replaced. The whole bike can be.
  - strogonoff 6y ago
    Perhaps you can easily replace hundreds of dollars in parts but I’d rather avoid that. Besides, as I wrote, if my bike fails during an aggressive ride, replacing its parts might be the least of my problems.
    - brudgers 6y ago
      Genuinely curious how frequently the bike is ridden aggressively, who maintains it, and how frequently they do so. For my own safety, I try not to ride aggressively, but I do ride frequently and maintain my own bike so I don't have an intuition about your experience. By trial and error, I mean small scale and safely. Like truing a wheel. Spin, adjust, spin, adjust, spin, adjust...and eventually the wheel is true. That's when it's ok to ride on it. Brakes and bearings are spin, adjust, spin, adjust too. The difference experience makes is fewer spin, adjust loops to get it right enough to ride on.
      - strogonoff 6y ago
        I often ride a little (or a lot) faster than the situation calls for in urban context and rely on emergency braking. The bike I bought at a dealership is just a couple months old and no maintenance work had been done so far. I am feeling it’s about time for some adjustments (rim brakes are accumulating some leeway now), and thought I could as well replace some parts while at it and start to learn how to put together a fully custom ride (to use the skill in future after I move to a more permanent location).