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12-year-old suspended over toy gun seen in virtual class
- ColanR 6y ago> The toy in question is a neon green and black handgun with an orange tip with the words “Zombie Hunter” printed on the side. Pretty sure that's a nurf gun I've seen in walmart before.
- dane-pgp 6y agoThe article at [0] (which is not geo-restricted) does indeed describe it as a "neon green Nerf gun". [0] https://reason.com/2020/09/07/zoom-nerf-gun-school-cops-kid-isaiah-elliott/ https://reason.com/2020/09/07/zoom-nerf-gun-school-cops-kid-...
- kiba 6y agoAre institutions eroding common senses or do people just lack common sense in the first place?
- kayodelycaon 6y agoThis is very common in American schools. At some point it just got easier to implement zero-tolerance policies than to deal with the actual issues.
- gchamonlive 6y agoI would say it has always been like this and now we are waking up to this fact. Actually dealing with issues would require a flexibility that would not go well with the rigidity of the educational system
- ryneandal 6y agoIt's been this way since at least 2003. My parents taught at a school for students expelled from their home-zoned schools, and some of the reasons were incredibly laughable. Zero-tolerance discipline is a plague on our society (mandatory minimums in sentencing is another example).
- kayodelycaon 6y agoIt started around 1994: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero_tolerance_(schools)#History https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero_tolerance_(schools)#Histo...
- feross 6y agoI just shared this story with a family member who's a kindergarten teacher. She said a 5-year-old in her Zoom class did the same thing – he excitedly showed a giant Nerf gun to his classmates – "Look at what I just got!" – to which she just said "That's nice sweetie, now put that away". And that was the end of it. Common sense still exists. But some people are just rule-following busybodies.
- srtjstjsj 6y agoInstitution is the name we give to things that exist outside of the humans they contain. So institutions necessarily lack common sense.
- cm2012 6y agoSchool bureaucracy is insane and cares more about liability than common sense and empathy, story 8001.
- redmaple 6y agoThat teacher and principal should be fired
- tomohawk 6y agoShows how unaccountable government schools are for their actions.
- choward 6y agoThis is ridiculous. Not being able to take kids to school is already hard enough on parents. They're being forced to use their own home instead of taking them to a building their tax dollars pay for. It's already privacy evading enough that they have video cameras in their , but then they record the video and use it for BS like this. What a waste of resources.
- mc32 6y agoNot only that but they called child welfare on the parents: “ The teacher notified the school principal who suspended Isaiah for five days and called the El Paso County Sheriff’s Office to conduct a welfare check on the boy without calling his parents first.” We’ll probably see push back from parents as they become aware of the state of education. This pandemic is going to expose a lot of the education system to parents. The hope would be the education system learn from this hybrid of state education + home schooling experiment and also for parents to get more involved and have a say —but likely there would be tremendous pushback from unions who would not want that.
- jacobolus 6y agoIt’s sad when large groups of kids are placed in the charge of power-tripping authoritarian racists. Calling the sheriff’s department to physically go to the kid’s house to deal with a toy (unintentionally) shown to a bunch of 12 year olds in an online art class is a ludicrous abuse of trust. Law enforcement house calls like this have literally gotten people shot over trivial misunderstandings. If I sent my kids to that school I’d be demanding the principal’s resignation.
- peterpeppers 6y agoInterestingly enough.... Black conservatives like Walter Williams and Thomas Sowell have often decried that "affirmative action" is used by whites namely liberals to avoid fixing the issues with public education school systems that are in charge of so many black and brown kids. THE ISSUES: - Underfunding - Disproportionate discipline WHO IS TO BLAME? - Conservative legislatures who push funding to rural areas over heavily populated liberal cities - Democratic big city administrators beholden to teachers unions - Liberal colleges who "focus on diversity at expense of all else" WRITINGS: - https://www.pilotonline.com/opinion/columns/vp-ed-column-williams-0104-20200104-pu7o6zob2vesvhsjjfzzujg5h4-story.html https://www.pilotonline.com/opinion/columns/vp-ed-column-wil... - https://www.creators.com/read/walter-williams/07/18/college-destruction-of-black-students https://www.creators.com/read/walter-williams/07/18/college-...
- tlear 6y agoThis is why teachers unions do not want you to have a choice where you send your kid. Because no sane adult would send a kid to a school that did this.
- alphabettsy 6y agoI don’t think this is remotely why and the premise is disingenuous as well. It seems pretty clear that they’re against public funds going to private institution rather than they want you to have no choice of where to send your kid.
- agensaequivocum 6y agoWhy? I pay property tax which mostly goes to education. Why can I not have choice in how that is spent on the education of my children?
- bradlys 6y agoYou presumably also pay federal income taxes - why can't you choose how money on soldiers gets spent? Maybe because there's a societal benefit from people not getting a choice on how each one of their individual tax dollars gets spent... And maybe there's a societal benefit from people not being able to choose which public school they get put into. You're gonna deal with one of two evils: Tyranny of the majority or tragedy of the commons. Most places in the US seem to choose tyranny.
- agensaequivocum 6y agoFederal expenditures are very different and removed from one's local community. Everyone should absolutely get some say in how their money is spent at the local level. > Most places in the US seem to choose tyranny. Very true and very sad as well.
- alphabettsy 6y agoThis is why we have local elections including school boards. Good luck getting Middle school by AWS to offer similar accountability.
- swiley 6y agoSchool administration reaching into people’s homes is extremely offensive. I can’t believe people tolerate this!
- topkai22 6y agoGiven that teaching is happening inside people’s homes, it has to. That being said, this is stupid in the extreme. I can justify the welfare check, but the suspension is insane.
- andrewfong 6y agoIn the current environment (a significant percentage of Americans are afraid of almost any police interaction and are demonstrating to that effect), the welfare check seems ridiculous as well -- especially when a phone call to the parents would suffice.
- merlinscholz 6y ago"This site is currently unavailable to visitors from the European Economic Area while we work to ensure your data is protected in accordance with applicable EU laws." Apparently tracking is more important than actually providing the news.
- yenwodyah 6y agoApparently privacy is more important to the EU than being able to see the news.
- knolax 6y agoAn American local news network has neither the resources or motive to comply with European regulations.
- erik_seaberg 6y agoYou can’t stay safe merely by not tracking people. GDPR is over 50,000 words and largely untested in court. Beyond not doing bad things, you probably have to hire specialists and wait months for consultation before feature launches, but nobody can be certain they have met all the requirements to the satisfaction of the many separate authorities. Either you blow seven figures hoping to comply, you bet eight figures you’ll never be within EU jurisdiction, or you do this.
- projectileboy 6y agoYep, I was waiting for this. There’s a whole new world of stupid liability that we haven’t even touched on yet. Similar stuff will happen in the workplace.
- spectramax 6y agoUgh. Tell me about it. Workplaces are full of this bullshit. Ergonomics training - CYA for lawsuits due to repeated motions, they want to make sure you signed off on the training. It has nothing to do with your well-being. Diversity and Inclusion - I fucking hate this. It has not much to do with getting people of various backgrounds but CYA against discrimination lawsuits. Office safety - I can’t bring my own coffee machine because I might just cause a “trip hazard”. Hmm... I see another CYA against workplace injury lawsuits.
- sschueller 6y agoAlthough a toy gun, doesn't the second amendment also apply to children? I don't remember seeing an age restriction in the constitution. Also the "gun" was at home and not taken on school property.
- hindsightbias 6y agoIt’s Texas. Zero Tolerance and minimum mandatory sentencing trumps your rights.
- atestu 6y agoIt happened in Colorado.
- a1369209993 6y agoIronically, your argument would be completely correct if it were a real gun[0], but I don't think it applies to toys. 0: or, say, a rocket-propelled grenade launcher; it's important to remember that second-amendment rights apply to any weapons the military is allowed to use, because the point is to enable local militias to fight national (British or otherwise) military forces
- ed25519FUUU 6y ago> The teacher notified the school principal who suspended Isaiah for five days and called the El Paso County Sheriff’s Office to conduct a welfare check on the boy without calling his parents first. This is the scary part to me. The amount of power CPS wields is incredible. Your children are taken away for weeks and kept with a stranger foster family. This process is a terror to them, and 15% of them are sexually abused while in the foster care system[1]. We learned with Pelosi Jr. that CPS is weaponized by the politically connected to threaten or silence people[2]. 1. https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/c495/52badb0c693eb6f7ed8960ba55720e71876b.pdf https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/c495/52badb0c693eb6f7ed8960... 2. https://nationalfile.com/video-pelosis-sons-ex-girlfriend-claims-forced-abortion-abuse-weaponizing-cps-massive-fraud/ https://nationalfile.com/video-pelosis-sons-ex-girlfriend-cl...
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- john-shaffer 6y agoA "welfare check" is just police stopping by and asking if everything's okay. The CPS aren't involved.
- ed25519FUUU 6y agoA great reason to be in favor of "money follows the student" type of school funding[1]. This is one of those policies that I'm unexpectedly in favor of with the current admin. Especially with online education. The reality is these parents are stuck. Parents in terrible districts are stuck. What incentive do schools have to change if they'll get the money for your child either way? 1. https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2020/08/12/trump_on_reopening_schools_we_want_money_to_follow_the_student_democrats_want_money_to_follow_the_union.html https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2020/08/12/trump_on_...
- maxerickson 6y agoCharter schools have been around enough to make it clear that they don't fix these problems for the whole student population. Individual charter schools may work, but there's not examples of charter schools pulling all the students out of public systems, and guess where the more problematic students end up?
- srtjstjsj 6y agoMoney should follow the competence, not marketing campaigns.
- ed25519FUUU 6y agoIf money should follow competence then the bulk of our public schools should be seriously defunded, especially in inner cities.
- ardy42 6y ago> If money should follow competence then the bulk of our public schools should be seriously defunded, especially in inner cities. I believe the inner city schools already have been defunded (or more precisely have been underfunded from the start), which is part of the problem.
- srtjstjsj 6y agoHeadline buried the lede: two boys were suspended, and one was threatened with imprisonment.
- mcphage 6y ago> “We will continue to support all families in our school to make sure they feel safe, respected, and educated.” Wow, they seriously fucked that one up. There’s nothing in the district’s actions that would make anyone feel safe or respected.
- a1369209993 6y agoTechnically they didn't fuck it up - they're just lying about trying in the first place.
- mcphage 6y agoI mean, yeah, you're right, although they managed to do the complete opposite of what they were lying about; if I went to that school I'd feel a hell of a lot less safe or respected knowing that the school might send the police to talk to my children based on something they briefly see on camera, without even talking to me about it.
- D13Fd 6y agoThey are absolutely wrong in every way to suspend the kid if the facts in the story are true. That's absurd and harmful with no benefit. That said, I think there has to be something more to this. First, the gun is an airsoft gun that actually looks like a green handgun: https://nypost.com/2020/09/07/colorado-school-calls-sheriff-on-boy-who-showed-toy-gun-in-virtual-class/ https://nypost.com/2020/09/07/colorado-school-calls-sheriff-... For comparison, here is a real handgun that happens to be green: https://www.pinterest.com/pin/329185053986413778/ https://www.pinterest.com/pin/329185053986413778/ Second, it's not clear that the teacher understood or believed it was a toy. And if it wasn't a toy, then their actions don't seem 100% unreasonable. I love the second amendment, but if the teacher honestly believed a 12 year old was casually handling a firearm without supervision, I could see them wanting to let someone know. And maybe they just took it too far. Maybe I have too much faith in humanity, but I really cannot image any reasonable person calling child protective services on a house because a child had a toy gun (nerf, airsoft, or otherwise). I really don't believe teachers are out to get students or to just waste the state's time. But if that's what happened then it's reprehensible. And either way, the suspension makes no sense if the student is telling the truth about what happened.
- ardy42 6y ago> Second, it's not clear that the teacher understood or believed it was a toy. And if it wasn't a toy, then their actions don't seem 100% unreasonable. From the OP: >> The Problem Solvers obtained the sheriff’s report and it confirms the teacher “said she assumed it was a toy gun but was not certain.”
- agensaequivocum 6y ago> And if it wasn't a toy, then their actions don't seem 100% unreasonable. No it is completely unreasonable. It's not the the schools business if I give my child a gun. Back in the day, children used to bring guns to school so they could shoot or hunt after without stopping by home to pick it up. At most, the school should have called the parents first and they can decide what's best.
- slowmovintarget 6y agoWe live in a "good" school district. I was thrilled when our home-school plan was accepted. Every time I see stories like this I take it as one more data point in support of our decision.