4 ms·

There is obviously nuance, but if the word sounds like a slur, and is used generally to describe people of a certain race, then the offended can certainly expre

by Klinky 6y ago

There is obviously nuance, but if the word sounds like a slur, and is used generally to describe people of a certain race, then the offended can certainly express their offense, and the culture should consider the offended person's position. In this case I am pretty sure the word is "neger", and yeah, I don't think we should mourn or handwring over any sort of great loss of Norweigian culture/heritage that has occurred due to them being more sensitive to using that word to describe black people. Cultures evolve.

Pet_Ant 6y ago
Why should Norway evolve based on American norms or history? This is a form of American cultural colonialism.
- Klinky 6y ago
  Looking into it, it does not look like this is solely influenced by American "cultural colonialism". Objections to the use have also been from black people who are not from the US. There may be some level of cultural ignorance regarding the connotations of the term, and its place in history. It seems "Americanisation" is often blamed, and "best/good intentions" used as an excuse to continue to use a word that offends. There is an interesting paper by Marianne Gullestad that goes into some of the previous historical debate over the term, it is not newly controversial. Culture continues to evolve. https://www.antropologi.info/blog/anthropology/pdf/Gullestad-Normalising.pdf https://www.antropologi.info/blog/anthropology/pdf/Gullestad...
marvin 6y ago
The word in question is not "neger", it's "svart". Translating to "negro" and "black", respectively. The former has been considered old-fashioned or pejorative for a couple of decades, the latter has only recently become disputed. The politically correct version for "svart", would be "med mørk hudfarge" ("with dark skin color") or, if you want to push the edge of propritey, "mørkhudet" ("dark-skinned"). And sure. If someone takes offense or are clearly hurt by it, it's not like I'll go out of my way to insult them. But it's five syllables where one would convey the same meaning, without any intention of offense. It's not a hill I'd choose to die on, but as a matter of principle... I'd very much prefer if we wouldn't adopt an excessive fear of insult here. I'm pretty sure that most people who take offense at this, are taking offense on behalf of others. Which is in itself a somewhat superior or paternalistic attitude that I'm not sure that all minorities appreciate.
- Klinky 6y ago
  It seems "neger" was still debatable according to this reddit thread from 2012 https://www.reddit.com/r/Norway/comments/ylcpw/what_do_i_call_black_people_in_norwegian/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Norway/comments/ylcpw/what_do_i_cal... and Marrianne Gullstead paper seemed to indicate it was still being hotly debated in the early 2000s, not that it had fallen completely out of fashion by then. It sounds like the situation is still evolving. Is there anything that highlights the controversy around "svart"? The main point was that if you continue to use a word that someone described as offensive to them then it's hard to argue "best intentions", and it comes off as either laziness or disdain for that person. You can take those offended by proxy with a grain of salt, but in some cases there is truth behind what they are saying, and it should still be considered.
9HZZRfNlpR 6y ago
That's straight up American imperialism, I suggest you to do better and think it through next time you suggest horrible things like that.
- Klinky 6y ago
  Disdain for the use of "neger" in Norway was actually prompted largely by internal groups, not "American imperialism". The historical context around how the word developed does not put it in the best light. It's antiquated at best, and derogatory/offensive at worst.

by Klinky 6y ago

Pet_Ant 6y ago

Why should Norway evolve based on American norms or history? This is a form of American cultural colonialism.

Klinky 6y ago
Looking into it, it does not look like this is solely influenced by American "cultural colonialism". Objections to the use have also been from black people who are not from the US. There may be some level of cultural ignorance regarding the connotations of the term, and its place in history. It seems "Americanisation" is often blamed, and "best/good intentions" used as an excuse to continue to use a word that offends. There is an interesting paper by Marianne Gullestad that goes into some of the previous historical debate over the term, it is not newly controversial. Culture continues to evolve. https://www.antropologi.info/blog/anthropology/pdf/Gullestad-Normalising.pdf https://www.antropologi.info/blog/anthropology/pdf/Gullestad...

marvin 6y ago

The word in question is not "neger", it's "svart". Translating to "negro" and "black", respectively. The former has been considered old-fashioned or pejorative for a couple of decades, the latter has only recently become disputed. The politically correct version for "svart", would be "med mørk hudfarge" ("with dark skin color") or, if you want to push the edge of propritey, "mørkhudet" ("dark-skinned"). And sure. If someone takes offense or are clearly hurt by it, it's not like I'll go out of my way to insult them. But it's five syllables where one would convey the same meaning, without any intention of offense. It's not a hill I'd choose to die on, but as a matter of principle... I'd very much prefer if we wouldn't adopt an excessive fear of insult here. I'm pretty sure that most people who take offense at this, are taking offense on behalf of others. Which is in itself a somewhat superior or paternalistic attitude that I'm not sure that all minorities appreciate.

Klinky 6y ago
It seems "neger" was still debatable according to this reddit thread from 2012 https://www.reddit.com/r/Norway/comments/ylcpw/what_do_i_call_black_people_in_norwegian/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Norway/comments/ylcpw/what_do_i_cal... and Marrianne Gullstead paper seemed to indicate it was still being hotly debated in the early 2000s, not that it had fallen completely out of fashion by then. It sounds like the situation is still evolving. Is there anything that highlights the controversy around "svart"? The main point was that if you continue to use a word that someone described as offensive to them then it's hard to argue "best intentions", and it comes off as either laziness or disdain for that person. You can take those offended by proxy with a grain of salt, but in some cases there is truth behind what they are saying, and it should still be considered.

9HZZRfNlpR 6y ago

That's straight up American imperialism, I suggest you to do better and think it through next time you suggest horrible things like that.

Klinky 6y ago
Disdain for the use of "neger" in Norway was actually prompted largely by internal groups, not "American imperialism". The historical context around how the word developed does not put it in the best light. It's antiquated at best, and derogatory/offensive at worst.