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RWW Hacker Poll: Is OSX Still Developer Friendly?

8 points by rodh257 15y ago

fourk 15y ago
$5 is annoying, but not so much that is going to impact my decision regarding a $2000+ purchase in the slightest. Honestly I think they should just include an xcode license with any of the Pro models.
- jarin 15y ago
  I suspect it will be included for free with Lion. The $5 charge is consistent with Apple's interpretation of Sarbanes-Oxley compliance.
  - ugh 15y ago
    It has been included for free with past versions of OS X. (And, consequently, with every Mac Apple has sold as long as the developer tools have existed.) This might well change but we don’t yet know.
  - deleted 15y ago
    [deleted]
jarin 15y ago
I just spent $1000 on a MacBook, but damned if I'm going to spend 5 bucks on developer tools. drinks 6 energy drinks a day, has 5 pages of iPhone games
cloudhead 15y ago
I don't think OSX was ever really developer friendly, at least compared to Linux.
- ctide 15y ago
  Your definition of developer is radically different from mine.
- cloudhead 15y ago
  I feel sorry for everyone who down-voted me.
  - jarin 15y ago
    I feel sorry for everyone who thinks Hacker News is a good place to start OS flamewars.
HaloZero 15y ago
Initial setup is always a one time-cost, it takes maybe a day of your time to setup things on any computer (maybe it be Linux, Windows, or Mac). The point is Mac still blends a good combination of Unix terminal, nice GUI, and less hardware problems. I have to admit though, it really depends on what type of developer you are. I do web, so I mostly stay in the browser and the app (RoR/Django/etc), so not many issues. Perhaps other type of developers need to use Linux or Windows for their specific environments.
w1ntermute 15y ago
It's rather silly how big of a deal people are making about this. IMO, this doesn't change how "developer friendly" OS X is. There's no such thing as one set of requirements for all developers that OS X either meets or doesn't. For a specific developer, it either met or didn't meet your needs prior to this, and nothing should have changed because of this.
poutine 15y ago
Who are all these developers that can't spend $5 on a interim release of developer tools? Perhaps they should reconsider being developers, just stick with XCode 3 or wait for Lion. So many people just seem to want to bitch about Apple because it makes them feel better about their technology choices.
- jarin 15y ago
  If you really can't afford it, just pirate it. It's not like Xcode has a CD key or anything, and I'd be shocked if Apple started mobilizing the lawyers to go after illegal Xcode downloaders. If you're not motivated or resourceful enough to scrounge up a few bucks for an iTunes gift card, I doubt BitTorrent is a totally foreign concept to you anyway.
- bradleyland 15y ago
  I really wish the author had excluded the $5 issue altogether, because for me, it's completely irrelevant. It's all the other factors that drive me nuts. * Download a large 4.5GB file * Spend a decent amount of time installing XCode * Sacrifice 15GB of disk space to an app they likely won't use I upgraded to a 256 GB SSD in January. This means that every GB counts on my disk. I never launch XCode. There are a couple of utilities included that are useful, but I literally never use any of the XCode tools, and I have no intention of developing an iOS application. Running DaisyDisk against my /Developer folder shows that 8.4 GB of the space is occupied by "Platforms", which contains iOS related platform and simulator files. For developers who don't develop specifically for OS X/iOS, there is a lot of baggage here. I'd still happily pay the $5 if I could get a trimmed down "XCode Express" install that didn't include any of the platform target stuff. As it stands now, I'm afraid to delete it because I don't want to go through the hassle of downloading and reinstalling (however you do that) such a large package.
dlsspy 15y ago
It would cost me considerably more than $5 to download xcode over my ATT wireless connection. It's a bit easier over my DSL, but they just started metering that really tightly as well.
makecheck 15y ago
Xcode is $5 on the App Store, but included in either (Mac or iOS) annual developer program's $99. What's more, so far App Store software updates have been free. So even if you paid $5, it may be the last $5 until Xcode 5, if ever. If you've ever had to build GCC from scratch, you'd be willing to pay $5 just for that. And Apple gives you an IDE and by far the best interface to performance tools I have ever seen (Instruments).
tzs 15y ago
You can still get XCode 3 for free, and I believe you can also download the command line version of gcc for free from Apple. Also, there has been no indication that Apple is going to stop shipping the developer CD with every new Mac.

8 points by rodh257 15y ago

fourk 15y ago

$5 is annoying, but not so much that is going to impact my decision regarding a $2000+ purchase in the slightest. Honestly I think they should just include an xcode license with any of the Pro models.

jarin 15y ago
I suspect it will be included for free with Lion. The $5 charge is consistent with Apple's interpretation of Sarbanes-Oxley compliance.
- ugh 15y ago
  It has been included for free with past versions of OS X. (And, consequently, with every Mac Apple has sold as long as the developer tools have existed.) This might well change but we don’t yet know.
- deleted 15y ago
  [deleted]

jarin 15y ago

I just spent $1000 on a MacBook, but damned if I'm going to spend 5 bucks on developer tools. drinks 6 energy drinks a day, has 5 pages of iPhone games

cloudhead 15y ago

I don't think OSX was ever really developer friendly, at least compared to Linux.

ctide 15y ago
Your definition of developer is radically different from mine.
cloudhead 15y ago
I feel sorry for everyone who down-voted me.
- jarin 15y ago
  I feel sorry for everyone who thinks Hacker News is a good place to start OS flamewars.

HaloZero 15y ago

Initial setup is always a one time-cost, it takes maybe a day of your time to setup things on any computer (maybe it be Linux, Windows, or Mac). The point is Mac still blends a good combination of Unix terminal, nice GUI, and less hardware problems. I have to admit though, it really depends on what type of developer you are. I do web, so I mostly stay in the browser and the app (RoR/Django/etc), so not many issues. Perhaps other type of developers need to use Linux or Windows for their specific environments.

w1ntermute 15y ago

It's rather silly how big of a deal people are making about this. IMO, this doesn't change how "developer friendly" OS X is. There's no such thing as one set of requirements for all developers that OS X either meets or doesn't. For a specific developer, it either met or didn't meet your needs prior to this, and nothing should have changed because of this.

poutine 15y ago

Who are all these developers that can't spend $5 on a interim release of developer tools? Perhaps they should reconsider being developers, just stick with XCode 3 or wait for Lion. So many people just seem to want to bitch about Apple because it makes them feel better about their technology choices.

jarin 15y ago
If you really can't afford it, just pirate it. It's not like Xcode has a CD key or anything, and I'd be shocked if Apple started mobilizing the lawyers to go after illegal Xcode downloaders. If you're not motivated or resourceful enough to scrounge up a few bucks for an iTunes gift card, I doubt BitTorrent is a totally foreign concept to you anyway.
bradleyland 15y ago
I really wish the author had excluded the $5 issue altogether, because for me, it's completely irrelevant. It's all the other factors that drive me nuts. * Download a large 4.5GB file * Spend a decent amount of time installing XCode * Sacrifice 15GB of disk space to an app they likely won't use I upgraded to a 256 GB SSD in January. This means that every GB counts on my disk. I never launch XCode. There are a couple of utilities included that are useful, but I literally never use any of the XCode tools, and I have no intention of developing an iOS application. Running DaisyDisk against my /Developer folder shows that 8.4 GB of the space is occupied by "Platforms", which contains iOS related platform and simulator files. For developers who don't develop specifically for OS X/iOS, there is a lot of baggage here. I'd still happily pay the $5 if I could get a trimmed down "XCode Express" install that didn't include any of the platform target stuff. As it stands now, I'm afraid to delete it because I don't want to go through the hassle of downloading and reinstalling (however you do that) such a large package.

dlsspy 15y ago

It would cost me considerably more than $5 to download xcode over my ATT wireless connection. It's a bit easier over my DSL, but they just started metering that really tightly as well.

makecheck 15y ago

Xcode is $5 on the App Store, but included in either (Mac or iOS) annual developer program's $99. What's more, so far App Store software updates have been free. So even if you paid $5, it may be the last $5 until Xcode 5, if ever. If you've ever had to build GCC from scratch, you'd be willing to pay $5 just for that. And Apple gives you an IDE and by far the best interface to performance tools I have ever seen (Instruments).

tzs 15y ago

You can still get XCode 3 for free, and I believe you can also download the command line version of gcc for free from Apple. Also, there has been no indication that Apple is going to stop shipping the developer CD with every new Mac.