5 ms·

I want people who think this is good to do a mental experiment. Forget that this particular drug is LSD. I want you to imagine you are reading an article about

by Noos 6y ago

I want people who think this is good to do a mental experiment. Forget that this particular drug is LSD. I want you to imagine you are reading an article about a previously unknown drug made by a new company that is touted to have great efficacy in treating mental illness. However, you soon learn that the side effect of this drug is serious hallucinations every time you take it, often serious enough that people recommend that you only take it in the presence of a licensed professional able to deal with the fallout of a hallucinatory episode going bad. Not only this, there is the potential of long lasting and fundamental personality change from it. Not just getting you back to a functional state, but changing who you are as a person. To the point where recreational users take this drug to find quasi-mystical experiences and make themselves a better person. Would you guys really be gung ho about this drug if it were not called LSD and was made by Pfizer in a lab? I'd honestly be scared enough to only even consider it as a last resort to cases where it was impossible to function otherwise. But LSD gets touted way too much as a miracle drug here, even though if any other drug had these side effects, people would try everything but it first.

pazimzadeh 6y ago
You think it's possible to treat mental illness without "the potential for long lasting and fundamental personality change"? Doesn't everything have the risk of causing "long lasting and fundamental personality change," including traveling to another country? It's just a shift in perspective.
throwaway_pdp09 6y ago
> but changing who you are as a person That's what everybody should be doing as they experience life. Anyone who doesn't can never grow, improve. > Would you guys really be gung ho about this drug who is being? > I'd honestly be scared enough to only even consider it as a last resort to cases where it was impossible to function Anyone who has deteriorated to where they can't function will try what they can. I've been there. I'm not comfortable with how you're presenting it but I like your thought experiment though, it's a good new perspective on an issue.
wayneftw 6y ago
Before I did LSD I had heard about the hallucinations, the potential for personality alteration and the possibility of long lasting effects. Those are the exact reasons I dove headfirst into trying it a few times over a summer! If I had heard that it was made by some pharmaceutical company I probably would have stayed far away from it. None of my friends and family where talking about pharmaceutical drugs and even at a young age I already knew that corporate culture did not value my best interests.
- Nursie 6y ago
  > If I had heard that it was made by some pharmaceutical company I mean, it was, it's just they had to stop and it gets made by underground chemists these days. But it absolutely was the product of a pharmaceutical company.
Nursie 6y ago
LSD was discovered and initially manufactured by Sandoz labs, now owned by Novartis. And honestly, I'd be interested in trying it. Particularly as the side effects of "no lasting harm" and "sense of well being that lasts long after the experience" started to come out.
Broken_Hippo 6y ago
The hallucinations and other side effects is a good part of why I do LSD, to tell you the truth. It is OK that I need to set aside a day to do it. I'm good with that. Regular medicines have side effects. Sometimes they are pretty bad side effects, but in general, folks think it is better than the alternative OR the side effects don't happen to all folks, and you won't know until you take it. Psychiatric drugs sometimes make things worse, but you won't always know - which is why some folks get started in the hospital. Heck, I have MS. The side effects from the drugs are kinda worse than the disease for me, but they mean I'm more likely to walk and draw in 10 years. And all sorts of things can change your personality. For me: Age, people's deaths, moving to another country, abusive relationship, someone else's suicide attempt, things I've learned, and a slew of other things. LSD didn't have a more profound effect than these sorts of things. MDMA kind of did, but that was definitely for the better as I'm happier with myself. All this said, I'll agree that these aren't for everyone, but no medicine is. And for some folks, these drugs work wonders and I don't want to take that away from folks.
pmoriarty 6y ago
"the side effect of this drug is serious hallucinations every time you take it, often serious enough that people recommend that you only take it in the presence of a licensed professional able to deal with the fallout of a hallucinatory episode going bad" Many consider the "hallucinations" to be actually quite valuable and seek them out. So that this substance causes them would be a plus. As for doing psychedelics with a therapist, that can be beneficial, depending on what your goals are, where you are in your life, whether you can find a good therapist who you like, respect, and trust, etc. But taking psychedelics in a therapeutic context is not the only legitimate way of using them constructively. You could also take them in shamanic, religious, ritualistic, creative, sexual, or even playful contexts -- though some would argue that these are seriously powerful and perhaps even sacred substances that deserve tremendous respect and should not be used casually. As for the trip turning "bad", that's always a possibility because these are in fact very, very powerful substances, and one could get in to a situation one is not capable of dealing with on one's own. That's why having an experienced person you like and trust with you is essential. It's like going on an expedition to Antarctica or to the moon. You wouldn't be advised to try it alone. An experienced companion can help you in all sorts of ways and have your back. That doesn't mean the trip is not worth taking. It just means that you should prepare thoroughly and take every reasonable precaution. Also, regarding bad trips: it may be more productive to call them "difficult trips" or, better, "challenging trips". If one takes the attitude of curiosity and tries to learn something from every experience, no matter how unsettling, one may find that the challenging trips are ones that offer a lot of learning opportunities. I know that I've learned far more from my bad trips than the good ones. That doesn't mean that everyone can deal with anything that comes up during a challenging trip.. some people are clearly not ready, or have some demons they really, really don't want to or aren't capable of facing. This is why doing this in a therapeutic context may be safest, but at least go in with an experienced person you like and trust. They might be able to help. As for personality changes... that could actually be a good thing. Some people are happy with themselves the way they are, others are looking for a change. However, such changes on psychedelics don't tend to be permanent. After a while, people tend to slide back in to the same old habits and the same old ways of viewing the world. It usually takes very significant, conscious, and deliberate effort over the long run to have a chance of making what you learn during a trip in to your life stay with your forever.

by Noos 6y ago

pazimzadeh 6y ago

You think it's possible to treat mental illness without "the potential for long lasting and fundamental personality change"? Doesn't everything have the risk of causing "long lasting and fundamental personality change," including traveling to another country? It's just a shift in perspective.

throwaway_pdp09 6y ago

> but changing who you are as a person That's what everybody should be doing as they experience life. Anyone who doesn't can never grow, improve. > Would you guys really be gung ho about this drug who is being? > I'd honestly be scared enough to only even consider it as a last resort to cases where it was impossible to function Anyone who has deteriorated to where they can't function will try what they can. I've been there. I'm not comfortable with how you're presenting it but I like your thought experiment though, it's a good new perspective on an issue.

wayneftw 6y ago

Before I did LSD I had heard about the hallucinations, the potential for personality alteration and the possibility of long lasting effects. Those are the exact reasons I dove headfirst into trying it a few times over a summer! If I had heard that it was made by some pharmaceutical company I probably would have stayed far away from it. None of my friends and family where talking about pharmaceutical drugs and even at a young age I already knew that corporate culture did not value my best interests.

Nursie 6y ago
> If I had heard that it was made by some pharmaceutical company I mean, it was, it's just they had to stop and it gets made by underground chemists these days. But it absolutely was the product of a pharmaceutical company.

Nursie 6y ago

LSD was discovered and initially manufactured by Sandoz labs, now owned by Novartis. And honestly, I'd be interested in trying it. Particularly as the side effects of "no lasting harm" and "sense of well being that lasts long after the experience" started to come out.

Broken_Hippo 6y ago

The hallucinations and other side effects is a good part of why I do LSD, to tell you the truth. It is OK that I need to set aside a day to do it. I'm good with that. Regular medicines have side effects. Sometimes they are pretty bad side effects, but in general, folks think it is better than the alternative OR the side effects don't happen to all folks, and you won't know until you take it. Psychiatric drugs sometimes make things worse, but you won't always know - which is why some folks get started in the hospital. Heck, I have MS. The side effects from the drugs are kinda worse than the disease for me, but they mean I'm more likely to walk and draw in 10 years. And all sorts of things can change your personality. For me: Age, people's deaths, moving to another country, abusive relationship, someone else's suicide attempt, things I've learned, and a slew of other things. LSD didn't have a more profound effect than these sorts of things. MDMA kind of did, but that was definitely for the better as I'm happier with myself. All this said, I'll agree that these aren't for everyone, but no medicine is. And for some folks, these drugs work wonders and I don't want to take that away from folks.

pmoriarty 6y ago

"the side effect of this drug is serious hallucinations every time you take it, often serious enough that people recommend that you only take it in the presence of a licensed professional able to deal with the fallout of a hallucinatory episode going bad" Many consider the "hallucinations" to be actually quite valuable and seek them out. So that this substance causes them would be a plus. As for doing psychedelics with a therapist, that can be beneficial, depending on what your goals are, where you are in your life, whether you can find a good therapist who you like, respect, and trust, etc. But taking psychedelics in a therapeutic context is not the only legitimate way of using them constructively. You could also take them in shamanic, religious, ritualistic, creative, sexual, or even playful contexts -- though some would argue that these are seriously powerful and perhaps even sacred substances that deserve tremendous respect and should not be used casually. As for the trip turning "bad", that's always a possibility because these are in fact very, very powerful substances, and one could get in to a situation one is not capable of dealing with on one's own. That's why having an experienced person you like and trust with you is essential. It's like going on an expedition to Antarctica or to the moon. You wouldn't be advised to try it alone. An experienced companion can help you in all sorts of ways and have your back. That doesn't mean the trip is not worth taking. It just means that you should prepare thoroughly and take every reasonable precaution. Also, regarding bad trips: it may be more productive to call them "difficult trips" or, better, "challenging trips". If one takes the attitude of curiosity and tries to learn something from every experience, no matter how unsettling, one may find that the challenging trips are ones that offer a lot of learning opportunities. I know that I've learned far more from my bad trips than the good ones. That doesn't mean that everyone can deal with anything that comes up during a challenging trip.. some people are clearly not ready, or have some demons they really, really don't want to or aren't capable of facing. This is why doing this in a therapeutic context may be safest, but at least go in with an experienced person you like and trust. They might be able to help. As for personality changes... that could actually be a good thing. Some people are happy with themselves the way they are, others are looking for a change. However, such changes on psychedelics don't tend to be permanent. After a while, people tend to slide back in to the same old habits and the same old ways of viewing the world. It usually takes very significant, conscious, and deliberate effort over the long run to have a chance of making what you learn during a trip in to your life stay with your forever.