4 ms·

I'm no expert in chicken rearing but isn't it quite likely that the more "free range" your eggs are raised the more chance of accidental having a fertalized egg

I'm no expert in chicken rearing but isn't it quite likely that the more "free range" your eggs are raised the more chance of accidental having a fertalized egg? Seems much less likely in caged hens (at significant harm to the chicken of course).

BillinghamJ 6y ago
"Free range" isn't super free ranging, as such - it tends to be achieved still with very restrictive conditions. With ones which really properly can roam about in a large outdoor area, yeah it seems the likelihood would go up, but I think those are fairly unusual at least in the UK
- kelnage 6y ago
  I happen to live near one of the larger “proper” free range farms - Sherston Free Range eggs [1]. The photos on their website really don’t lie - in fact, there’s a local pub that often has “visits” from the chickens, wandering over from their fields. They lay some of the nicest eggs around too! 1. https://www.sherstonfreerangeeggs.co.uk/ https://www.sherstonfreerangeeggs.co.uk/
dogma1138 6y ago
Most free range eggs are nothing more than branding just like fair trade coffee. If it’s a large industrial farm free range or not the likelihood of the eggs being fertilized is pretty much zero, smaller farmstead/homestead farms that sell their eggs directly or to resellers can often have fertilized eggs tho.
- matthewmacleod 6y ago
  There are pretty solid legal requirements for describing an egg as "free range" within the EU (or UK), which are clear on things like the stocking density, access to outdoor space etc. I don't think there is any reasonable basis for your view that this is "nothing more than branding".
  - dogma1138 6y ago
    I think you might want to check up on those high standards. https://metro.co.uk/2020/01/28/secret-camera-films-chickens-laying-eggs-surrounded-by-rotting-birds-12131921/ https://metro.co.uk/2020/01/28/secret-camera-films-chickens-... And even without violations like this the regulation is extremely murky and the requirements are laughable the UK standard for free range eggs allows for no more than 13 hens per square meter not only that even if it was accounted for correctly it isn’t any better than regular farming the regulation grants a lot of freedom for how this is calculated and most farms reach that figure by counting in areas that the chickens can’t actually roam in. But sure if 13 hens per meter is free range to you then yes the U.K. and the EU have very strict regulations indeed.
    - Reason077 6y ago
      The EU legal requirement for free-range eggs is a maximum stocking density of 9 hens per square meter, plus 4 square meters per hen of outdoor space, and continuous access to the outdoors during daylight hours. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free-range_eggs#European_Union https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free-range_eggs#European_Union Eggs certifications like Red Lion, RSPCA, and organic soil association all specify stricter standards than the legal requirements.
      - dogma1138 6y ago
        That wikipedia link is out of date, the RSPCA specifies 13 birds per square meter for it's free range certification. https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/shortcuts/2017/feb/28/what-does-free-range-actually-mean-its-complicated https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/shortcuts/2017/feb/... I think you really should read the actual certification requirements, free range is a joke.
        takluyver 6y ago
        ~In fact, your link is out of date~ (edit - see below). Here's the RSPCA specification from August 2017: https://science.rspca.org.uk/documents/1494935/9042554/RSPCA+welfare+standards+for+laying+hens+2017+%28PDF+4.46MB%29.pdf/fd2c382d-1a4a-29ee-781f-158c34ca6082?t=1557668428002 https://science.rspca.org.uk/documents/1494935/9042554/RSPCA... Point E 5.3 specifies no more than 9 hens per square metre of indoor space. If I'm reading correctly, this applies to both free-range and barn hens. Free range hens also need outdoor space at a density of no more than 2500 birds per hectare, which works out to 4 square metres per bird (although 1 m2 is allowed for birds under 21 weeks old). That's also the EU rule for 'free range' eggs. The RSPCA spec is about 100 pages of details about popholes, lighting, water, and so on. Whether it's effectively enforced, I can't tell, but it's not a joke. Edit: My bad, the Guardian article also says 9 birds per square metre for free range eggs. Free-range chickens raised for meat can be kept at a higher density than laying hens: 13 per square metre indoors and 1 square metre outdoor space. But eggs are the topic here.
user5994461 6y ago
You should check the stamp on the egg. The first number is how the chicken was raised. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egg_marking#Producer_code https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egg_marking#Producer_code Free range is not necessarily what a person would expect of free range. The farm can pack 9 hens per square meter with some outdoor space available at times.
- markdown 6y ago
  > Free range is definitely not what a person would think of free range. Yup, it's a scam. Deceptive marketing. What people think of as free range they'll find if they buy "pastured eggs" (in Australia at least).
  - user5994461 6y ago
    I've edited my message, the European standard is not that bad actually, 4 square meter per hen of external space. Australian regulations seem to be a joke though.
    - scandinavegan 6y ago
      It's still misleading in Sweden, even though we're in the EU. Here it's called "frigående" (free-walking, or free-range) which for hens just means that they are not kept in small cages. The free-range version with access to the outdoor is called "ecological" (16% of the hens). When people buy eggs in Sweden from "free-walking" hens, they expect them to be outdoors in the sun, but instead they are kept indoors with a maximum of 9 hens per square meter and up to 10.000 hens in a barn. It's not easy to find an English description of this, so here are some Swedish articles: Wikipedia: https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frig%C3%A5ende_djur https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frig%C3%A5ende_djur Swedish Egg, an organization from the egg industry: https://www.svenskaagg.se/?p=19891&m=3959 https://www.svenskaagg.se/?p=19891&m=3959 Djurens Rätt, an animal rights group: https://www.djurensratt.se/djur-i-livsmedelsindustrin/honor-och-tuppar https://www.djurensratt.se/djur-i-livsmedelsindustrin/honor-...
      - 6y ago

BillinghamJ 6y ago

"Free range" isn't super free ranging, as such - it tends to be achieved still with very restrictive conditions. With ones which really properly can roam about in a large outdoor area, yeah it seems the likelihood would go up, but I think those are fairly unusual at least in the UK

kelnage 6y ago
I happen to live near one of the larger “proper” free range farms - Sherston Free Range eggs [1]. The photos on their website really don’t lie - in fact, there’s a local pub that often has “visits” from the chickens, wandering over from their fields. They lay some of the nicest eggs around too! 1. https://www.sherstonfreerangeeggs.co.uk/ https://www.sherstonfreerangeeggs.co.uk/

dogma1138 6y ago

Most free range eggs are nothing more than branding just like fair trade coffee. If it’s a large industrial farm free range or not the likelihood of the eggs being fertilized is pretty much zero, smaller farmstead/homestead farms that sell their eggs directly or to resellers can often have fertilized eggs tho.

matthewmacleod 6y ago
There are pretty solid legal requirements for describing an egg as "free range" within the EU (or UK), which are clear on things like the stocking density, access to outdoor space etc. I don't think there is any reasonable basis for your view that this is "nothing more than branding".
- dogma1138 6y ago
  I think you might want to check up on those high standards. https://metro.co.uk/2020/01/28/secret-camera-films-chickens-laying-eggs-surrounded-by-rotting-birds-12131921/ https://metro.co.uk/2020/01/28/secret-camera-films-chickens-... And even without violations like this the regulation is extremely murky and the requirements are laughable the UK standard for free range eggs allows for no more than 13 hens per square meter not only that even if it was accounted for correctly it isn’t any better than regular farming the regulation grants a lot of freedom for how this is calculated and most farms reach that figure by counting in areas that the chickens can’t actually roam in. But sure if 13 hens per meter is free range to you then yes the U.K. and the EU have very strict regulations indeed.
  - Reason077 6y ago
    The EU legal requirement for free-range eggs is a maximum stocking density of 9 hens per square meter, plus 4 square meters per hen of outdoor space, and continuous access to the outdoors during daylight hours. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free-range_eggs#European_Union https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free-range_eggs#European_Union Eggs certifications like Red Lion, RSPCA, and organic soil association all specify stricter standards than the legal requirements.
    - dogma1138 6y ago
      That wikipedia link is out of date, the RSPCA specifies 13 birds per square meter for it's free range certification. https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/shortcuts/2017/feb/28/what-does-free-range-actually-mean-its-complicated https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/shortcuts/2017/feb/... I think you really should read the actual certification requirements, free range is a joke.
      - takluyver 6y ago
        ~In fact, your link is out of date~ (edit - see below). Here's the RSPCA specification from August 2017: https://science.rspca.org.uk/documents/1494935/9042554/RSPCA+welfare+standards+for+laying+hens+2017+%28PDF+4.46MB%29.pdf/fd2c382d-1a4a-29ee-781f-158c34ca6082?t=1557668428002 https://science.rspca.org.uk/documents/1494935/9042554/RSPCA... Point E 5.3 specifies no more than 9 hens per square metre of indoor space. If I'm reading correctly, this applies to both free-range and barn hens. Free range hens also need outdoor space at a density of no more than 2500 birds per hectare, which works out to 4 square metres per bird (although 1 m2 is allowed for birds under 21 weeks old). That's also the EU rule for 'free range' eggs. The RSPCA spec is about 100 pages of details about popholes, lighting, water, and so on. Whether it's effectively enforced, I can't tell, but it's not a joke. Edit: My bad, the Guardian article also says 9 birds per square metre for free range eggs. Free-range chickens raised for meat can be kept at a higher density than laying hens: 13 per square metre indoors and 1 square metre outdoor space. But eggs are the topic here.

user5994461 6y ago

You should check the stamp on the egg. The first number is how the chicken was raised. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egg_marking#Producer_code https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egg_marking#Producer_code Free range is not necessarily what a person would expect of free range. The farm can pack 9 hens per square meter with some outdoor space available at times.

markdown 6y ago
> Free range is definitely not what a person would think of free range. Yup, it's a scam. Deceptive marketing. What people think of as free range they'll find if they buy "pastured eggs" (in Australia at least).
- user5994461 6y ago
  I've edited my message, the European standard is not that bad actually, 4 square meter per hen of external space. Australian regulations seem to be a joke though.
  - scandinavegan 6y ago
    It's still misleading in Sweden, even though we're in the EU. Here it's called "frigående" (free-walking, or free-range) which for hens just means that they are not kept in small cages. The free-range version with access to the outdoor is called "ecological" (16% of the hens). When people buy eggs in Sweden from "free-walking" hens, they expect them to be outdoors in the sun, but instead they are kept indoors with a maximum of 9 hens per square meter and up to 10.000 hens in a barn. It's not easy to find an English description of this, so here are some Swedish articles: Wikipedia: https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frig%C3%A5ende_djur https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frig%C3%A5ende_djur Swedish Egg, an organization from the egg industry: https://www.svenskaagg.se/?p=19891&m=3959 https://www.svenskaagg.se/?p=19891&m=3959 Djurens Rätt, an animal rights group: https://www.djurensratt.se/djur-i-livsmedelsindustrin/honor-och-tuppar https://www.djurensratt.se/djur-i-livsmedelsindustrin/honor-...
    - 6y ago