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I've always found the US obsession with taboo words quite baffling. I used to tease Americans of my acquaintance by pretending to be offended when they said "oh

I've always found the US obsession with taboo words quite baffling. I used to tease Americans of my acquaintance by pretending to be offended when they said "oh my god" (dildo in French) or nick (fuck.) Context matters a lot in linguistic, and the Sapir-Worff hypothesis is not just unproven, it's almost certainly completely wrong.

dgellow 6y ago
Without trying to be alarmist, I have a feeling that's slowly spreading to Europe too, at least France and Germany.
- wazoox 6y ago
  Yes in universities around the world this victimhood culture spreads like fire.
- kebman 6y ago
  The Norwegian word for blacks used to be something that isn't allowed to be uttered anymore. It started becoming a problem only after we got a few black American migrants, and other migrants influenced by American culture to Norway. These people didn't understand the context of the word, and so they became violently offended when anyone used the word, even if the the word has always been a completely harmless description and not a slur within Norwegian culture. (Trust me, you'd know if a slur was used!) But because it offended so many newcommers, and since a synonym was readily available, Norwegians didn't think it was a hill worth dying on, and so they just cut it out of everday use. Today it is regarded as a big faux pas to use the word. Meanwhile some Norwegians still feel offended that foreigners who do not understand their culture, take to dictating how Norwegians should or should not speak. Personally I honestly don't know which is worse; offending someone because you said something with the best of intentions, or forcing someone to submit to arbitrary rules to avoid that they get offended, even if you utter such words with the best of intentions.
  - __blockcipher__ 6y ago
    > ... or forcing someone to submit to arbitrary rules to avoid that they get offended, even if you utter such words with the best of intentions. Spoiler alert: this one is worse.
  - Klinky 6y ago
    Uttering a word someone finds offensive "with the best intentions" doesn't make it less offensive. If you continue to utter the word, then your intentions are probably not as pure as you think.
    - phkahler 6y ago
      >> Uttering a word someone finds offensive "with the best intentions" doesn't make it less offensive. It was a Norwegian word probably new to those offended. Isnt the offense absurd? Nobody should bend for that.
      - Klinky 6y ago
        I am guessing the word here is "neger", and is more akin to the US use of the word "negro" than the slur "Nier"[looks like HN censors even my censored version of the slur to "Nier"]. Even in the US "negro" has mostly fallen out of general use, and is considered derogatory in most casual contexts.
        marvin 6y ago
        As mentioned in sibling thread, unless GP is 80 years old and has had their head in the sand for the last 30 of them, the word in question is likely "svart" (black) rather than "neger" (negro).
        Klinky 6y ago
        It would have been nice if GP had actually noted the word, and no they do not need to be 80 years old to have possibly meant "neger", it depends I guess on their intentions... Edit: Frankly I am not sure why they would have meant "svart" while blaming specifically "American migrants". It seems "neger" would be much more immediately offensive to someone coming from the US.
- Semaphor 6y ago
  Do you have examples for Germany? Haven’t heard much of it.
  - BlackLotus89 6y ago
    I think what the original author is hinting at is happening for years now. Maybe op meant something like Negerkuss or Mohrenkopf (Negerkuss now is Schokokuss or Aufgeschaeumte Zuckermasse mit Schokoglasur) and Zigeuner-Sausse/Schnitzel (this one was only recently). And yes I got the feeling that american culture and american "stuff" is slowly but surely pouring over and I hope that misused words like the now "default meaning" of racism (racism in america can now "only be applied" to minorities whereas, of course, racism can in every country of the world can be had against any other "race") will stay an american thing and not be copied by us.
    - Semaphor 6y ago
      I know of both of these and don’t find them comparable in any way. Both words (Neger and Zigeuner) have, all my life, been used as derogatory words to describe certain people.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
foepys 6y ago
Also with sexuality. My worry is that with the American cultural imperialism through Hollywood our European liberal approach to sexuality will become more puritanical. E.g. sex only after 18, teenage sex is more or less illegal (19y/o with a 17y/o). Friends of mine already think that American laws around sexuality are valid worldwide and sex with an under-18 is forbidden. Which is absolutely false in the case of Germany.
- kevin_thibedeau 6y ago
  It's only crazy conservative states like California with the strict age cutoffs.
  - anthk 6y ago
    >conservative >California Hollywood told us otherwise to Europeans, them.
    - Natsu 6y ago
      California hasn't voted conservative since 1988. The cities are deep blue, though there are some red areas outside of the cities.
  - dang 6y ago
    Please don't add flamebait. If you want to make a factual point, great, but do so without swipes. We don't need regional flamewars here, or nationalistic flamewars, or any flamewars. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
  - gruez 6y ago
    That's trivially disproven. Using the snake graph from fivethrityeight[1] as a proxy for "crazy conservative"-ness, three[2] of the top five liberal states don't have "strict age cutoffs" (which I interpret as having a lower age of consent that's limited by the partner's page). On the other hand, three[3] of the top five conservative states do have "strict age cutoffs". [1] https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2020-election-forecast/ https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2020-election-forecast/ [2] Vermont, Hawaii, Maryland [3] Wyoming, West Virginia, Idaho
murbard2 6y ago
I also found it very baffling from a French standpoint. Obviously, spouting out des "gros mots" in polite society is frowned upon but the the magical thinking around 4 letter words in the US is on a whole other level. The country was founded by puritans and it still shows in many ways.
nix23 6y ago
Yes it's a joke, show an exploding head in the Cinema...no problem. A naked breast...big NONO.
coldtea 6y ago
>I've always found the US obsession with taboo words quite baffling Once a puritan, always a puritan. Religion inspired worldviews get dilluted into the general culture and inspire even those that don't believe (and in the US, where assimilation is everything, even those that come from other cultures).
sam_lowry_ 6y ago
What is more baffling is that this attitude is exported internationally. When I was a kid, it would never occur to me that the Russian word негр has negative connotations. Now, the word негр disappeared from public use.
- aiven 6y ago
  It didn't disappear. I still constantly hear and see in the internet usage of негр, нига or нигер (transliteration of the n-word). But the meaning always depends on the context, most of the time it is neutral - just referring to a black person, sometimes negative - infamous S.L. Jackson phrase "что этот ниггер себе позволяет", and sometimes positive: "нига, как дела" - can be equivalents to "what's up, bro", it's rarely used as joke-greeting. Local blacks don't seem to mind when someone call them this way, because it rarely has negative connotations.
juiyout 6y ago
I heard one cannot say "disabled", "hearing-impaired", "wheelchair-bound" as those are offensive terms.
- gruez 6y ago
  Indeed. https://gitlab.com/gitlab-org/gitlab/-/issues/232843 https://gitlab.com/gitlab-org/gitlab/-/issues/232843
  - Hasnep 6y ago
    I can't tell if you're being serious, but that link is one person saying that they think a group should move away from using some terminology, that's a bit of a leap from "You cannot say these words."
anonu 6y ago
"nique" or "niquer" in French is pretty interesting... It's actually an Arabic swear word meaning the same thing.
- himinlomax 6y ago
  I doubt « forniquer » is Arabic.
  - anonu 6y ago
    It's not. I'm also not sure what your point is. https://www.cnrtl.fr/definition/niquer https://www.cnrtl.fr/definition/niquer Here's a definitive source... The word originated from French military slang in 1918 from Algeria. Something about getting shot in the back. The abbreviations in the etymology section of the page are hard to make out
frabbit 6y ago
when they said "oh my god" (dildo in French) They were probably confused because you were mixing English 'oh my' with the well known Québecois word for a small penguin (un gode).
jjeaff 6y ago
There aren't that many taboo words in America. You can validate that by watching a few episodes of most any Netflix or cable tv drama. Europe, however, actually has illegal words. It is illegal to say heil hitler in germany or display nazi symbols. And I believe france has certain english words banned from official use.

dgellow 6y ago

Without trying to be alarmist, I have a feeling that's slowly spreading to Europe too, at least France and Germany.

wazoox 6y ago
Yes in universities around the world this victimhood culture spreads like fire.
kebman 6y ago
The Norwegian word for blacks used to be something that isn't allowed to be uttered anymore. It started becoming a problem only after we got a few black American migrants, and other migrants influenced by American culture to Norway. These people didn't understand the context of the word, and so they became violently offended when anyone used the word, even if the the word has always been a completely harmless description and not a slur within Norwegian culture. (Trust me, you'd know if a slur was used!) But because it offended so many newcommers, and since a synonym was readily available, Norwegians didn't think it was a hill worth dying on, and so they just cut it out of everday use. Today it is regarded as a big faux pas to use the word. Meanwhile some Norwegians still feel offended that foreigners who do not understand their culture, take to dictating how Norwegians should or should not speak. Personally I honestly don't know which is worse; offending someone because you said something with the best of intentions, or forcing someone to submit to arbitrary rules to avoid that they get offended, even if you utter such words with the best of intentions.
- __blockcipher__ 6y ago
  > ... or forcing someone to submit to arbitrary rules to avoid that they get offended, even if you utter such words with the best of intentions. Spoiler alert: this one is worse.
- Klinky 6y ago
  Uttering a word someone finds offensive "with the best intentions" doesn't make it less offensive. If you continue to utter the word, then your intentions are probably not as pure as you think.
  - phkahler 6y ago
    >> Uttering a word someone finds offensive "with the best intentions" doesn't make it less offensive. It was a Norwegian word probably new to those offended. Isnt the offense absurd? Nobody should bend for that.
    - Klinky 6y ago
      I am guessing the word here is "neger", and is more akin to the US use of the word "negro" than the slur "Nier"[looks like HN censors even my censored version of the slur to "Nier"]. Even in the US "negro" has mostly fallen out of general use, and is considered derogatory in most casual contexts.
      - marvin 6y ago
        As mentioned in sibling thread, unless GP is 80 years old and has had their head in the sand for the last 30 of them, the word in question is likely "svart" (black) rather than "neger" (negro).
        Klinky 6y ago
        It would have been nice if GP had actually noted the word, and no they do not need to be 80 years old to have possibly meant "neger", it depends I guess on their intentions... Edit: Frankly I am not sure why they would have meant "svart" while blaming specifically "American migrants". It seems "neger" would be much more immediately offensive to someone coming from the US.
Semaphor 6y ago
Do you have examples for Germany? Haven’t heard much of it.
- BlackLotus89 6y ago
  I think what the original author is hinting at is happening for years now. Maybe op meant something like Negerkuss or Mohrenkopf (Negerkuss now is Schokokuss or Aufgeschaeumte Zuckermasse mit Schokoglasur) and Zigeuner-Sausse/Schnitzel (this one was only recently). And yes I got the feeling that american culture and american "stuff" is slowly but surely pouring over and I hope that misused words like the now "default meaning" of racism (racism in america can now "only be applied" to minorities whereas, of course, racism can in every country of the world can be had against any other "race") will stay an american thing and not be copied by us.
  - Semaphor 6y ago
    I know of both of these and don’t find them comparable in any way. Both words (Neger and Zigeuner) have, all my life, been used as derogatory words to describe certain people.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

foepys 6y ago

Also with sexuality. My worry is that with the American cultural imperialism through Hollywood our European liberal approach to sexuality will become more puritanical. E.g. sex only after 18, teenage sex is more or less illegal (19y/o with a 17y/o). Friends of mine already think that American laws around sexuality are valid worldwide and sex with an under-18 is forbidden. Which is absolutely false in the case of Germany.

kevin_thibedeau 6y ago
It's only crazy conservative states like California with the strict age cutoffs.
- anthk 6y ago
  >conservative >California Hollywood told us otherwise to Europeans, them.
  - Natsu 6y ago
    California hasn't voted conservative since 1988. The cities are deep blue, though there are some red areas outside of the cities.
- dang 6y ago
  Please don't add flamebait. If you want to make a factual point, great, but do so without swipes. We don't need regional flamewars here, or nationalistic flamewars, or any flamewars. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- gruez 6y ago
  That's trivially disproven. Using the snake graph from fivethrityeight[1] as a proxy for "crazy conservative"-ness, three[2] of the top five liberal states don't have "strict age cutoffs" (which I interpret as having a lower age of consent that's limited by the partner's page). On the other hand, three[3] of the top five conservative states do have "strict age cutoffs". [1] https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2020-election-forecast/ https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2020-election-forecast/ [2] Vermont, Hawaii, Maryland [3] Wyoming, West Virginia, Idaho

murbard2 6y ago

I also found it very baffling from a French standpoint. Obviously, spouting out des "gros mots" in polite society is frowned upon but the the magical thinking around 4 letter words in the US is on a whole other level. The country was founded by puritans and it still shows in many ways.

nix23 6y ago

Yes it's a joke, show an exploding head in the Cinema...no problem. A naked breast...big NONO.

coldtea 6y ago

>I've always found the US obsession with taboo words quite baffling Once a puritan, always a puritan. Religion inspired worldviews get dilluted into the general culture and inspire even those that don't believe (and in the US, where assimilation is everything, even those that come from other cultures).

sam_lowry_ 6y ago

What is more baffling is that this attitude is exported internationally. When I was a kid, it would never occur to me that the Russian word негр has negative connotations. Now, the word негр disappeared from public use.

aiven 6y ago
It didn't disappear. I still constantly hear and see in the internet usage of негр, нига or нигер (transliteration of the n-word). But the meaning always depends on the context, most of the time it is neutral - just referring to a black person, sometimes negative - infamous S.L. Jackson phrase "что этот ниггер себе позволяет", and sometimes positive: "нига, как дела" - can be equivalents to "what's up, bro", it's rarely used as joke-greeting. Local blacks don't seem to mind when someone call them this way, because it rarely has negative connotations.

juiyout 6y ago

I heard one cannot say "disabled", "hearing-impaired", "wheelchair-bound" as those are offensive terms.

gruez 6y ago
Indeed. https://gitlab.com/gitlab-org/gitlab/-/issues/232843 https://gitlab.com/gitlab-org/gitlab/-/issues/232843
- Hasnep 6y ago
  I can't tell if you're being serious, but that link is one person saying that they think a group should move away from using some terminology, that's a bit of a leap from "You cannot say these words."

anonu 6y ago

"nique" or "niquer" in French is pretty interesting... It's actually an Arabic swear word meaning the same thing.

himinlomax 6y ago
I doubt « forniquer » is Arabic.
- anonu 6y ago
  It's not. I'm also not sure what your point is. https://www.cnrtl.fr/definition/niquer https://www.cnrtl.fr/definition/niquer Here's a definitive source... The word originated from French military slang in 1918 from Algeria. Something about getting shot in the back. The abbreviations in the etymology section of the page are hard to make out

frabbit 6y ago

when they said "oh my god" (dildo in French) They were probably confused because you were mixing English 'oh my' with the well known Québecois word for a small penguin (un gode).

jjeaff 6y ago

There aren't that many taboo words in America. You can validate that by watching a few episodes of most any Netflix or cable tv drama. Europe, however, actually has illegal words. It is illegal to say heil hitler in germany or display nazi symbols. And I believe france has certain english words banned from official use.