8 ms·

Am I the only one that is extremely wary of psychoactive substances being used as magic bullet treatment method? You tend not to hear about the people that have

Am I the only one that is extremely wary of psychoactive substances being used as magic bullet treatment method? You tend not to hear about the people that have had a permanent increase of anxiety and long lasting schizophrenia from usage. This drug does not work well for everyone and you only find out once you have taken it. A bad trip can ruin some people permanently.

dekken_ 6y ago
You should be wary, but it's always context dependent. Could it make your life better vs could it make it worse. In a hospice setting it's kind of hard to make your life worse, so it's reasonable (IMO) to try somethings there.
- iamericfletcher 6y ago
  I find it interesting that you think a life is worse because that life is in a hospice setting.
  - dekken_ 6y ago
    I said your life can't get worse in a hospice, you'll likely be dead soon.
    - rguiliani 6y ago
      lots of things can be done to you before you die: https://www.cnn.com/2019/07/09/health/hospice-hhs-inspector-general-report/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2019/07/09/health/hospice-hhs-inspector-...
    - LocalH 6y ago
      That’s nonsense. People in hospice can still have a relatively better or worse experience. Your statement is extremely dismissive of the wide range of human experience that is possible, especially in an end-of-life situation.
      - deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
      - dekken_ 6y ago
        Way to miss the point
kinghtown 6y ago
A great part of the horror of a bad trip is how regular people treat someone who is experiencing one, or has been damaged by one. I would rank interactions with the police as a far greater danger than like an out of body experience into god knows what. I have a buddy who did like 150 hits of LSD 20 years ago and there is a great sadness in him and how he can’t really share that experience with most people. People, who’ve never played around with LSD tend to become super condescending with him like he’s damaged. The thing is, these studies or motions to incorporate psychedelics into therapy are never advocating for super human doses. I can definitely see the value in micro to moderate doses coupled with qualified therapy for non schizophrenic consenting adults. A full on like wizard trial into the nightmare heart of psycho hell with heroic doses of whatever is not what these guys are arguing for.
- OneGuy123 6y ago
  Nothing bad will happened when interacting with police if you do as they say. Look at all the police videos on LiveLeak etc...you will see a common thread in all arrests gone wrong: the suspect didn't do as he was told despite repeated warnings.
  - teataster 6y ago
    Never have I ever had a a pleasant interaction with law enforcement. I think that is what was implied by above poster, nothing to do with getting shot.
  - chownie 6y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Daniel_Shaver#Shooting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Daniel_Shaver#Shoo... Easily debunked. The police are not absolute, they are human beings. Some of them are not suitable for the position of power and use it to abuse others.
    - OneGuy123 6y ago
      Debunking it with a rare example? Are you truly generelizing to all arrests based on a few shitshows? You know how many police officers get killed by trying to arrest people peacefully?
throwaway_pdp09 6y ago
Where in the article does it even imply that it's a magic bullet? It doesn't. Quite the opposite as it clearly says: "Ultimately, Oram concludes, ‘although the increased regulation may have had some impact, the decline of LSD research in the 1970s can be more convincingly explained through the outcome of the clinical trials of the late 1960s’" > This drug does not work well for everyone No drug does. > and you only find out once you have taken it. true of all prescribed drugs.
vwat 6y ago
All of the popular psychedelics are extremely potent anti inflammatories, even at sub-psychoactive doses. And the effect lasts for months. And inflammation touches almost every modern illness... so it is a magic bullet. They also cure cluster headaches and migraines and people who suffer from those would certainly call it a magic bullet. Should we be testing every possible application to see what sticks? Yes.
- voisin 6y ago
  Source?
  - vwat 6y ago
    There should be a paper floating out there about DOI, which is actually the most potent anti inflamatory, more so than Lsd. He has other papers too. Sorry I’m on my phone.
teataster 6y ago
Psychedelics are not necessarily pleasant, should not be taken lightly: do your research and understand the risks if interested. AFAIK, schizophrenia is not caused but revealed by usage. AFAIK, most people suffering schizophrenia or psychotic attacks under the influence tend to be under 25 yo, which is the population that tends to suffer from those ailments. I am not a doctor, take my words with a grain of salt and do your own research. If I were to be wrong, I would love to be corrected.
- dekken_ 6y ago
  There seems to be active research into some kinds of schizophrenia arising from a lack of adequate minerals/compounds in the diet, some research suggesting a better quality of life by taking a high dose of niacin
trabant00 6y ago
I am especially worried about how drugs are presented in popular culture now a days. Very popular people (Joe Rogan for example, but far from the only one) keep repeating how good drugs can be for you, what a miracle drug they can be - drop smoking in one mushroom trip, how we wrongly fought against their mass adoption, etc. Meanwhile spending time in circles where drugs are used you don't have to search at all to find plenty of examples of people who ruined their lives. Even weed can do that. And while it mostly applies to young people I have several examples of 35+ with no prior problems getting some very destructive habits. MDMA has completely changed a closed friend of mine (early forties) for the worse. Psychedelics? That's some very powerful stuff that should be handled with extreme care. Meanwhile you have youtube channels presenting them as you would have a beer. I used to be pro legalization 10-15 years ago. Right now I would investigate the problem for at least 10 years as full time job before considering a position.
- hutzlibu 6y ago
  I am still pro legalization, even though I fully agree with you on the dangers of wrong presentation. But I believe this is part of the criminalisation and demonisation. From the official channels, like media and school drug prevention(in germany), it was mostly a simple "don't do it" "it is all bad". While the cool, a few years older nutheads presented it as magic. If it would be legal, people could talk about it more openly and share their experience freely to the younger generation and we could help the addicts more easily, if it would not be so stigmatized, like it is now. In my area there is a great usage of amphetamines (with the root source of bad economy, though), but if those people look for official help, they have to fear of their children being taken away, etc.
- Nursie 6y ago
  > Meanwhile you have youtube channels presenting them as you would have a beer. Well, you should be careful about that beer. Actually you should probably be more careful about that beer. If you feel people are being too blase about cannabis, then you ought to be horrified at how popular culture treats alcohol. Alcohol is toxic, it's a killer in both acute and chronic scenarios. It's carcinogenic, harmful to a lot of your internal organs, it's addictive, it's fattening, it can even cause seizures if stopped too quickly. It causes mental health problems and mental decline. It really is one of the worst drugs and its annual death-toll beats out all other drugs combined. No drug use is without problems, but this societal attitude that "drugs" are bad, but "just a beer" is fine... it's flat out deluded. So I have no problem treating a lot of forms of drug use, particularly of drugs like cannabis and other less-harmful substances, just like someone having a beer.
z3ncyberpunk 6y ago
What should we use? Ambien, adderall/meth, valium, ritalin? Natural psychedelics are much more effective that pharmaceutical trash
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
LatteLazy 6y ago
We're basically in the middle of an long epidemic of mental illness in the West. Suicide is the leading cause of death in some age\sex groups. Existing drugs are low efficacy even in ideal cases, and even lower when you look at how they're used in the real world. Then you have to try and factor in side effects. These are the factors I think drive this decision. It's worth noting as well that whether and how severe the various drugs under consideration actually cause the poor outcomes you list remains a matter of debate. Maybe they don't, maybe they do and it's worse than the current worst case prediction. We won't know until exactly these studies are completed... Full disclosure, I have had severe depression long term though I've been doing a lot better for the last 5 years or so.
LargoLasskhyfv 6y ago
Show me a drug which works well for everyone.
- IgorPartola 6y ago
  Vitamin C :)
  - LargoLasskhyfv 6y ago
    Hmkay. Wasn't exactly what I had in mind, but technically it counts, I guess.

dekken_ 6y ago

You should be wary, but it's always context dependent. Could it make your life better vs could it make it worse. In a hospice setting it's kind of hard to make your life worse, so it's reasonable (IMO) to try somethings there.

iamericfletcher 6y ago
I find it interesting that you think a life is worse because that life is in a hospice setting.
- dekken_ 6y ago
  I said your life can't get worse in a hospice, you'll likely be dead soon.
  - rguiliani 6y ago
    lots of things can be done to you before you die: https://www.cnn.com/2019/07/09/health/hospice-hhs-inspector-general-report/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2019/07/09/health/hospice-hhs-inspector-...
  - LocalH 6y ago
    That’s nonsense. People in hospice can still have a relatively better or worse experience. Your statement is extremely dismissive of the wide range of human experience that is possible, especially in an end-of-life situation.
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
    - dekken_ 6y ago
      Way to miss the point

kinghtown 6y ago

A great part of the horror of a bad trip is how regular people treat someone who is experiencing one, or has been damaged by one. I would rank interactions with the police as a far greater danger than like an out of body experience into god knows what. I have a buddy who did like 150 hits of LSD 20 years ago and there is a great sadness in him and how he can’t really share that experience with most people. People, who’ve never played around with LSD tend to become super condescending with him like he’s damaged. The thing is, these studies or motions to incorporate psychedelics into therapy are never advocating for super human doses. I can definitely see the value in micro to moderate doses coupled with qualified therapy for non schizophrenic consenting adults. A full on like wizard trial into the nightmare heart of psycho hell with heroic doses of whatever is not what these guys are arguing for.

OneGuy123 6y ago
Nothing bad will happened when interacting with police if you do as they say. Look at all the police videos on LiveLeak etc...you will see a common thread in all arrests gone wrong: the suspect didn't do as he was told despite repeated warnings.
- teataster 6y ago
  Never have I ever had a a pleasant interaction with law enforcement. I think that is what was implied by above poster, nothing to do with getting shot.
- chownie 6y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Daniel_Shaver#Shooting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Daniel_Shaver#Shoo... Easily debunked. The police are not absolute, they are human beings. Some of them are not suitable for the position of power and use it to abuse others.
  - OneGuy123 6y ago
    Debunking it with a rare example? Are you truly generelizing to all arrests based on a few shitshows? You know how many police officers get killed by trying to arrest people peacefully?

throwaway_pdp09 6y ago

Where in the article does it even imply that it's a magic bullet? It doesn't. Quite the opposite as it clearly says: "Ultimately, Oram concludes, ‘although the increased regulation may have had some impact, the decline of LSD research in the 1970s can be more convincingly explained through the outcome of the clinical trials of the late 1960s’" > This drug does not work well for everyone No drug does. > and you only find out once you have taken it. true of all prescribed drugs.

vwat 6y ago

All of the popular psychedelics are extremely potent anti inflammatories, even at sub-psychoactive doses. And the effect lasts for months. And inflammation touches almost every modern illness... so it is a magic bullet. They also cure cluster headaches and migraines and people who suffer from those would certainly call it a magic bullet. Should we be testing every possible application to see what sticks? Yes.

voisin 6y ago
Source?
- vwat 6y ago
  There should be a paper floating out there about DOI, which is actually the most potent anti inflamatory, more so than Lsd. He has other papers too. Sorry I’m on my phone.

teataster 6y ago

Psychedelics are not necessarily pleasant, should not be taken lightly: do your research and understand the risks if interested. AFAIK, schizophrenia is not caused but revealed by usage. AFAIK, most people suffering schizophrenia or psychotic attacks under the influence tend to be under 25 yo, which is the population that tends to suffer from those ailments. I am not a doctor, take my words with a grain of salt and do your own research. If I were to be wrong, I would love to be corrected.

dekken_ 6y ago
There seems to be active research into some kinds of schizophrenia arising from a lack of adequate minerals/compounds in the diet, some research suggesting a better quality of life by taking a high dose of niacin

trabant00 6y ago

I am especially worried about how drugs are presented in popular culture now a days. Very popular people (Joe Rogan for example, but far from the only one) keep repeating how good drugs can be for you, what a miracle drug they can be - drop smoking in one mushroom trip, how we wrongly fought against their mass adoption, etc. Meanwhile spending time in circles where drugs are used you don't have to search at all to find plenty of examples of people who ruined their lives. Even weed can do that. And while it mostly applies to young people I have several examples of 35+ with no prior problems getting some very destructive habits. MDMA has completely changed a closed friend of mine (early forties) for the worse. Psychedelics? That's some very powerful stuff that should be handled with extreme care. Meanwhile you have youtube channels presenting them as you would have a beer. I used to be pro legalization 10-15 years ago. Right now I would investigate the problem for at least 10 years as full time job before considering a position.

hutzlibu 6y ago
I am still pro legalization, even though I fully agree with you on the dangers of wrong presentation. But I believe this is part of the criminalisation and demonisation. From the official channels, like media and school drug prevention(in germany), it was mostly a simple "don't do it" "it is all bad". While the cool, a few years older nutheads presented it as magic. If it would be legal, people could talk about it more openly and share their experience freely to the younger generation and we could help the addicts more easily, if it would not be so stigmatized, like it is now. In my area there is a great usage of amphetamines (with the root source of bad economy, though), but if those people look for official help, they have to fear of their children being taken away, etc.
Nursie 6y ago
> Meanwhile you have youtube channels presenting them as you would have a beer. Well, you should be careful about that beer. Actually you should probably be more careful about that beer. If you feel people are being too blase about cannabis, then you ought to be horrified at how popular culture treats alcohol. Alcohol is toxic, it's a killer in both acute and chronic scenarios. It's carcinogenic, harmful to a lot of your internal organs, it's addictive, it's fattening, it can even cause seizures if stopped too quickly. It causes mental health problems and mental decline. It really is one of the worst drugs and its annual death-toll beats out all other drugs combined. No drug use is without problems, but this societal attitude that "drugs" are bad, but "just a beer" is fine... it's flat out deluded. So I have no problem treating a lot of forms of drug use, particularly of drugs like cannabis and other less-harmful substances, just like someone having a beer.

z3ncyberpunk 6y ago

What should we use? Ambien, adderall/meth, valium, ritalin? Natural psychedelics are much more effective that pharmaceutical trash

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

LatteLazy 6y ago

We're basically in the middle of an long epidemic of mental illness in the West. Suicide is the leading cause of death in some age\sex groups. Existing drugs are low efficacy even in ideal cases, and even lower when you look at how they're used in the real world. Then you have to try and factor in side effects. These are the factors I think drive this decision. It's worth noting as well that whether and how severe the various drugs under consideration actually cause the poor outcomes you list remains a matter of debate. Maybe they don't, maybe they do and it's worse than the current worst case prediction. We won't know until exactly these studies are completed... Full disclosure, I have had severe depression long term though I've been doing a lot better for the last 5 years or so.

LargoLasskhyfv 6y ago

Show me a drug which works well for everyone.

IgorPartola 6y ago
Vitamin C :)
- LargoLasskhyfv 6y ago
  Hmkay. Wasn't exactly what I had in mind, but technically it counts, I guess.