6 ms·

The Ordeal of Immigrating Legally

16 points by cwan 16y ago

michaelpinto 16y ago
I think people in the tech industry "get it" when it comes to immigration, but that flies in the face of so much of the xenophobia I see out there. Maybe the tech industry should invest in some educational outreach efforts to at least try and change the tide of things? I see too many talented people come to America only to pack and go home a few years later.
- hugh3 16y ago
  I've never really seen any sort of xenophobia in the US. It's one of the least xenophobic places in the world. The real barriers to foreigners coming to the US are all bureaucratic.
  - alextp 16y ago
    How is your experience in the US? Is it mostly NYC, New England, and California (or big cities in other places)? From what I hear rural america (which controls a disproportionate share of the voting power) tends to be more xenophobic, specially around the border with mexico.
    - tokenadult 16y ago
      From what I hear rural america Should I take this in the natural way that a native speaker of English would take it, to mean that you have never personally been to rural America? Where else have you been, and what other countries' attitudes toward immigrants are you comparing to the United States, which has one of the highest rates of legal immigration in the world? I should explain that I have spent much of my life in rural America (where my mother grew up, and where most of my aunts and uncles and cousins live). The rural Americans I know have been very accepting of my wife, a first-generation immigrant, and generally accepting of immigrants to the degree of often hiring immigrants as their various business ventures scale up. I have also lived outside the United States, although only on one other continent, and in my years overseas I have met quite a few people from a variety of countries who report that their countries of course also limit immigration. Is there any country in the world today with no restrictions at all on immigration? Where is it? Who emigrates to settle there?
  - davidmurphy 16y ago
    I don't know. I have encountered people who frankly I find to be quite racist/ethnically biased against Hispanics, for instance.
  - ojbyrne 16y ago
    Recently in an AR hotel the tv was broadcasting the story of Yuri Milner buying a house in CA for $100 million, and mentioned it had a pool. One of the people in the room said, quite loudly, "they should have drowned him in the pool before they showed it." I'm pretty sure that was related to him being a foreigner.
  - bigwally 16y ago
    I've seen plenty of xenophobia coming from the US media. How you've managed to never see any is a miracle.
  - pan69 16y ago
    "I've never really seen any sort of xenophobia in the US. It's one of the least xenophobic places in the world." Sorry. But that really made me laugh out loud. Seriously. Where do you think that bureaucracy finds it's origin?
grandalf 16y ago
I don't see how anyone can justify barriers preventing people from immigrating to the US. A 100% open policy would be the best humanitarian approach and would also lead to the most economic growth.
- lionheart 16y ago
  While I completely agree that in theory a 100% open policy would be ideal, practically there is no way the US could accommodate the sudden influx of immigrants that would result if we were to completely open our borders. 100% open immigration from Western Europe, Canada, Australia, and similar countries... could possibly work. 100% open immigration to anybody who speaks fluent English... could possibly work. But opening up our borders completely to Eastern Europe, Asia, South America, Africa would create complete chaos. As an immigrant to the US from the former Soviet Union I know how hard it is to really learn the language, the culture, and assimilate to the point where you're actually leading a decent life and being a productive member of society. It took my family about 4 years to really get situated and both of my parents are highly educated with a very strong work ethic and we had previous family living here. And we had to be supported by welfare and other government programs for 3 of those years. Although obviously a net gain over time, it takes a lot of resources to bring an immigrant into the American fold and we don't have enough of those resources to open our doors to everybody right now. And it wouldn't even be good for the immigrants. With a large influx of people from their country coming in, most would probably just settle somewhere together, assimilate much slower and possibly even turn to semi-criminal activity like many Russian immigrants I knew in New York. No, we need to change our immigration policy, but not just by opening up the doors.
  - grandalf 16y ago
    Well, then at least we should increase the number of immigrants by upwards of 10% per year until a point where nobody is turned away. The more immigrants we get, the more channels will exist for assimilation. Many colleges and universities are having a tough time staying in business, and major cities like Detroit are falling into decay b/c nobody wants to live there. When you consider how hard people have to work elsewhere even to get by, pretty much anyone with enough gumption to come to the US would eventually attain a middle class lifestyle, then many would exceed it. And even if some remained very poor, it's probably better to be very poor in the US than in many developing nations.
bbb 16y ago
Case in point: the American tax payer has payed for about 4.5 years of my graduate CS education, which, according to my visa documents, exceeds $200,000 in total cost. I'd like to stay, (re-)pay taxes, and I already had a six-digit job offer from a well-known American company. Further, my home country's embassy submitted, in writing, that they have no objection to me staying in the US, even permanently. Nonetheless, I'm getting "kicked out" this summer within 30 days after I graduate. I trust there must be good reasons on a global scale... but in my local view this makes only limited sense. (Btw., this is the J-1 visa home residency rule, for those who care. I need to live in my home country for at least two years before I can apply for an H-1b. Two years at home is just long enough to settle in and make moving _again_ not very attractive.)
splat 16y ago
A classic flowchart on the hassle of legal immigration: http://reason.org/files/cb299f0134ca8bb75243c69caa92eea7.pdf http://reason.org/files/cb299f0134ca8bb75243c69caa92eea7.pdf

16 points by cwan 16y ago

I think people in the tech industry "get it" when it comes to immigration, but that flies in the face of so much of the xenophobia I see out there. Maybe the tech industry should invest in some educational outreach efforts to at least try and change the tide of things? I see too many talented people come to America only to pack and go home a few years later.

hugh3 16y ago
I've never really seen any sort of xenophobia in the US. It's one of the least xenophobic places in the world. The real barriers to foreigners coming to the US are all bureaucratic.
- alextp 16y ago
  How is your experience in the US? Is it mostly NYC, New England, and California (or big cities in other places)? From what I hear rural america (which controls a disproportionate share of the voting power) tends to be more xenophobic, specially around the border with mexico.
  - tokenadult 16y ago
    From what I hear rural america Should I take this in the natural way that a native speaker of English would take it, to mean that you have never personally been to rural America? Where else have you been, and what other countries' attitudes toward immigrants are you comparing to the United States, which has one of the highest rates of legal immigration in the world? I should explain that I have spent much of my life in rural America (where my mother grew up, and where most of my aunts and uncles and cousins live). The rural Americans I know have been very accepting of my wife, a first-generation immigrant, and generally accepting of immigrants to the degree of often hiring immigrants as their various business ventures scale up. I have also lived outside the United States, although only on one other continent, and in my years overseas I have met quite a few people from a variety of countries who report that their countries of course also limit immigration. Is there any country in the world today with no restrictions at all on immigration? Where is it? Who emigrates to settle there?
- davidmurphy 16y ago
  I don't know. I have encountered people who frankly I find to be quite racist/ethnically biased against Hispanics, for instance.
- ojbyrne 16y ago
  Recently in an AR hotel the tv was broadcasting the story of Yuri Milner buying a house in CA for $100 million, and mentioned it had a pool. One of the people in the room said, quite loudly, "they should have drowned him in the pool before they showed it." I'm pretty sure that was related to him being a foreigner.
- bigwally 16y ago
  I've seen plenty of xenophobia coming from the US media. How you've managed to never see any is a miracle.
- pan69 16y ago
  "I've never really seen any sort of xenophobia in the US. It's one of the least xenophobic places in the world." Sorry. But that really made me laugh out loud. Seriously. Where do you think that bureaucracy finds it's origin?

grandalf 16y ago

I don't see how anyone can justify barriers preventing people from immigrating to the US. A 100% open policy would be the best humanitarian approach and would also lead to the most economic growth.

lionheart 16y ago
While I completely agree that in theory a 100% open policy would be ideal, practically there is no way the US could accommodate the sudden influx of immigrants that would result if we were to completely open our borders. 100% open immigration from Western Europe, Canada, Australia, and similar countries... could possibly work. 100% open immigration to anybody who speaks fluent English... could possibly work. But opening up our borders completely to Eastern Europe, Asia, South America, Africa would create complete chaos. As an immigrant to the US from the former Soviet Union I know how hard it is to really learn the language, the culture, and assimilate to the point where you're actually leading a decent life and being a productive member of society. It took my family about 4 years to really get situated and both of my parents are highly educated with a very strong work ethic and we had previous family living here. And we had to be supported by welfare and other government programs for 3 of those years. Although obviously a net gain over time, it takes a lot of resources to bring an immigrant into the American fold and we don't have enough of those resources to open our doors to everybody right now. And it wouldn't even be good for the immigrants. With a large influx of people from their country coming in, most would probably just settle somewhere together, assimilate much slower and possibly even turn to semi-criminal activity like many Russian immigrants I knew in New York. No, we need to change our immigration policy, but not just by opening up the doors.
- grandalf 16y ago
  Well, then at least we should increase the number of immigrants by upwards of 10% per year until a point where nobody is turned away. The more immigrants we get, the more channels will exist for assimilation. Many colleges and universities are having a tough time staying in business, and major cities like Detroit are falling into decay b/c nobody wants to live there. When you consider how hard people have to work elsewhere even to get by, pretty much anyone with enough gumption to come to the US would eventually attain a middle class lifestyle, then many would exceed it. And even if some remained very poor, it's probably better to be very poor in the US than in many developing nations.

bbb 16y ago

Case in point: the American tax payer has payed for about 4.5 years of my graduate CS education, which, according to my visa documents, exceeds $200,000 in total cost. I'd like to stay, (re-)pay taxes, and I already had a six-digit job offer from a well-known American company. Further, my home country's embassy submitted, in writing, that they have no objection to me staying in the US, even permanently. Nonetheless, I'm getting "kicked out" this summer within 30 days after I graduate. I trust there must be good reasons on a global scale... but in my local view this makes only limited sense. (Btw., this is the J-1 visa home residency rule, for those who care. I need to live in my home country for at least two years before I can apply for an H-1b. Two years at home is just long enough to settle in and make moving _again_ not very attractive.)

splat 16y ago

A classic flowchart on the hassle of legal immigration: http://reason.org/files/cb299f0134ca8bb75243c69caa92eea7.pdf http://reason.org/files/cb299f0134ca8bb75243c69caa92eea7.pdf