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I’ve loaned many friends large amounts of money over the years, and never once has anyone repaid me, and that’s ok. When I make a loan it’s with no expectation

I’ve loaned many friends large amounts of money over the years, and never once has anyone repaid me, and that’s ok. When I make a loan it’s with no expectation of repayment. I honestly don’t understand people who think it’s fair or right to ruin someone’s life just because you have power over them. It’s also possible to be kind, and generous, and those usually repay greater dividends than any interest rate.

yamrzou 6y ago
No, I would not ruin someone's life over a loan, that's why I said "depending on the situation". I've also given away lage amounts of money - not as loans - over the years without the expectation of being repaid, so it's not a question of generosity. Simply put, it is not OK to promise someone to payback within X time and not do it. If you are not sure you would be able to pay back, make it clear upfront. If something out of your control happens, it's OK. I agree with you that in that case we should be nice to each other and help each other. Also I'm not considering interest rates here, just paying back the loan as is.
- madaxe_again 6y ago
  I guess it’s down to moral absolutionism and universality - and while you may not be the shark your initial post suggested, I’m afraid to say many are. I would always expect myself to repay a loan, on or ahead of time. I don’t expect the same of others, however - I think most people, when taking a loan, expect and intend to pay it back - but life is not predictable, and their circumstances change. The thing is, being chased over a small amount of money is enough to ruin someone’s life, at least in the here and now - I’ve seen people in desperate situations due to debt, and I don’t mean penury, I mean guilt, remorse, feelings of failure. So, for me, it’s just not worth it. If someone pays me back, which has happened, then I’m happy, but I’ll never pursue a debt. They know they owe me. That’s enough. Don’t need to go piling the guilt on. In terms of how this is transferrable to reality, it’d be interesting to see how incentives rather than disincentives might work in a lending situation.
  - yamrzou 6y ago
    I really respect your attitude. I haven't been in a desperate need for a loan, nor seen people feeling the guilt of failing to pay back, so it's hard for me to relate. It's helpful to learn about it. > it’d be interesting to see how incentives rather than disincentives might work in a lending situation What kind of incentives might work here? I thought about a public trust score (some kind of "karma") that is attributed to people if they pay back succussfully. Not sure how well it would work in practice.
    - madaxe_again 6y ago
      The whole karma thing is an odd one. I look at something like the social credit systems in China with some trepidation, as the power in the instrument is immense - but at the same time think the concept as a whole potentially has legs. Why not reward people for good behaviour? Be monetarily poor but of good reputation, xyz is open to you. Be rich and of poor reputation, then those same possibilities are closed. I suppose the problem arises when you start trying to arbitrate good and bad, and who gets to be that arbiter. If you boil it away to purely a system for rewarding actions around financial credit, then you have... credit scores.

yamrzou 6y ago

No, I would not ruin someone's life over a loan, that's why I said "depending on the situation". I've also given away lage amounts of money - not as loans - over the years without the expectation of being repaid, so it's not a question of generosity. Simply put, it is not OK to promise someone to payback within X time and not do it. If you are not sure you would be able to pay back, make it clear upfront. If something out of your control happens, it's OK. I agree with you that in that case we should be nice to each other and help each other. Also I'm not considering interest rates here, just paying back the loan as is.

madaxe_again 6y ago
I guess it’s down to moral absolutionism and universality - and while you may not be the shark your initial post suggested, I’m afraid to say many are. I would always expect myself to repay a loan, on or ahead of time. I don’t expect the same of others, however - I think most people, when taking a loan, expect and intend to pay it back - but life is not predictable, and their circumstances change. The thing is, being chased over a small amount of money is enough to ruin someone’s life, at least in the here and now - I’ve seen people in desperate situations due to debt, and I don’t mean penury, I mean guilt, remorse, feelings of failure. So, for me, it’s just not worth it. If someone pays me back, which has happened, then I’m happy, but I’ll never pursue a debt. They know they owe me. That’s enough. Don’t need to go piling the guilt on. In terms of how this is transferrable to reality, it’d be interesting to see how incentives rather than disincentives might work in a lending situation.
- yamrzou 6y ago
  I really respect your attitude. I haven't been in a desperate need for a loan, nor seen people feeling the guilt of failing to pay back, so it's hard for me to relate. It's helpful to learn about it. > it’d be interesting to see how incentives rather than disincentives might work in a lending situation What kind of incentives might work here? I thought about a public trust score (some kind of "karma") that is attributed to people if they pay back succussfully. Not sure how well it would work in practice.
  - madaxe_again 6y ago
    The whole karma thing is an odd one. I look at something like the social credit systems in China with some trepidation, as the power in the instrument is immense - but at the same time think the concept as a whole potentially has legs. Why not reward people for good behaviour? Be monetarily poor but of good reputation, xyz is open to you. Be rich and of poor reputation, then those same possibilities are closed. I suppose the problem arises when you start trying to arbitrate good and bad, and who gets to be that arbiter. If you boil it away to purely a system for rewarding actions around financial credit, then you have... credit scores.