5 ms·

Wow. Just like Breaking Bad. I wonder if something like this is possible in the US?

beardog 6y ago
Indeed it is. https://inteltechniques.com https://inteltechniques.com has a podcast on OSINT/privacy run by a guy who performs this service to make people disappear as best as possible (within realm of the law). His clients are mainly celebs, execs and domestic abuse victims. It is very difficult and expensive, as for full protection you need to register LLCs and legal trusts for many things like home ownership. Additionally because we live in a surveillance capitalism dystopia, one little mistake can ruin everything and cause you to start over.
- krackers 6y ago
  Would the techniques be similar to those used in witness protection programs?
  - phobosanomaly 6y ago
    I looked around and was only able to find that Witness Protection offers a name change, with a lot of the service being relocation under that new name. I'd be curious to see if they go beyond a simple name change and issue, for example, a new SSN and birth certificate.
    - bonzini 6y ago
      Considering the security nonsense that SSNs are (essentially using a username as a password) they really should be replacing at least that one.
    - octoberfranklin 6y ago
      Yes, they do issue you a new SSN. In fact federal witness protection is just about the only entity that can change someone's SSN outside of the other two exceptions: (a) it contained the digits "666" or (b) it was issued consecutively with that of a relative. Both (a) and (b) are vanishingly rare nowadays.
- helsinkiandrew 6y ago
  Unless you're going to live as a near hermit or change country I wonder how effective all of this is in the long run without plastic surgery. If you wander in front of someone taking a photo that ends up on facebook, or socialise with people who post things on social media or someone from your home town sees you and mentions it to someone else. I think I'd always be looking over my shoulder
  - yourapostasy 6y ago
    You are correct. Unless you pay for everything in cash or through a company front, it is extremely difficult to stay off the identity grid. Changing countries raises the bar, changing to a non-OECD nation raises it further, but you give up certain benefits of access to an advanced tech tree in exchange. In the US I helped a female relative obscure her trail somewhat from a stalker when she sold her residence and moved states. She could not get classified under the domestic violence identity protection program of her state until she suffered physical abuse of some kind recorded by the police. There was "only" police report of the stalker arriving outside her front door in a doorman-guarded complex, with security footage of him banging on her door for ~10 hours. Twice (after that, the complex security knew him by sight and threw him out the next three times before he gave up). So be aware that most of these types of programs across the US are reactive and not proactive. With enough money and patience, a lot of everyday people can be eventually found unless they submerge themselves into a highly-insular community. However, above a certain threshhold of money and effort, I believe the advantage accrues to the hider instead of the seeker, even with nation-state resources at the seeker's fingertips. I believe it is far more time-efficient for the seeker to burrow their way into the hider's network of contacts.
- jacquesm 6y ago
  "If it's good enough for you, it's good enough for me".
moksly 6y ago
I live in Denmark, where you’d really need a new official SSN to “disappear” because you can’t do much without one and the official 2 factor identity that comes with it. But this article got me wondering a bit. I work in the public sector, and it’s actually not that hard to declare someone dead and issue a new SSN, or perhaps even a fake permanent refugee permit that will be eligible for a SSN after a few years. The processes around it aren’t really that audited, and nothing about the last part of it would pop up in any audit. It’s also done by some of our lowest payed employees who are hopelessly overworked, making it even easier to hide. I wonder if anyone is selling this service illegally.
- viraptor 6y ago
  It depends on who do you want to disappear from though. Just server the existing social ties or become officially recognised as a new identity. The first one probably doesn't require a new SSN.
uniqueid 6y ago
I wouldn't be surprised if this becomes a thriving industry in the future. The internet has created a world in which, no matter where you go, there is never an escape from your past, no easy way to pack your bags and start fresh. On top of that, the internet opens users from any particular nation to identity theft by criminals all around the world. This state of affairs is still young. A few more decades, and many more people will be seeking out a change of identity, a new address, maybe even plastic surgery. Witness relocation: it's not just for witnesses, anymore.
- shadowprofile77 6y ago
  I wonder how all of these things could be achieved despite the increasingly widespread use of biometric tracking technology being connected to our faces or other aspects of our physiology. I can see hacking and selective digital profile construction being done to remove traces of one's previous digital presence then replace it with another, and I can see people cleverly forging highly sophisticated fake official identity documents to back up their new names. All of that sure, but if one's ID is both governmentally and by corporations being increasingly connected to the structure of their face, or their gait, or their eyes or some other feature that a public camera could conceivably read, then how will the near future even allow anyone to make any of these identity jumps (legal or illegal)?
  - searchableguy 6y ago
    I am hoping for brain transplant to become successful. You could switch with someone else and live as a brand new person. We are also printing organs and skin using 3D printers right now. I don't see why we won't be able to change people drastically by reprinting their unique biometrics and replace through surgery. If you don't have your old hand, then your fingerprints becomes useless. You can already order kits to fake biometrics authentication/creation. https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/nov/15/fake-fingerprints-can-imitate-real-fingerprints-in-biometric-systems-research https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/nov/15/fake-fing... but this is worrying: https://venturebeat.com/2019/10/29/researchers-fool-person-detecting-ai-with-an-adversarial-t-shirt/ https://venturebeat.com/2019/10/29/researchers-fool-person-d... Just search adversarial [item] on Google.
Hamuko 6y ago
>Just like Breaking Bad. Not really considering Breaking Bad was about disappearing from the law.
- Cthulhu_ 6y ago
  But also from gangs, which in that series are the more dangerous.
inopinatus 6y ago
Not sure why you’re being downvoted. It is far from unreasonable to learn more about a society from the thoughtful dramas that it exports. For example, I have gained an unexpected insight into Korean constitutional jurisprudence from watching Secret Forest.
cafard 6y ago
It has to be a lot harder than it was, but it has been done.

Indeed it is. https://inteltechniques.com https://inteltechniques.com has a podcast on OSINT/privacy run by a guy who performs this service to make people disappear as best as possible (within realm of the law). His clients are mainly celebs, execs and domestic abuse victims. It is very difficult and expensive, as for full protection you need to register LLCs and legal trusts for many things like home ownership. Additionally because we live in a surveillance capitalism dystopia, one little mistake can ruin everything and cause you to start over.

krackers 6y ago
Would the techniques be similar to those used in witness protection programs?
- phobosanomaly 6y ago
  I looked around and was only able to find that Witness Protection offers a name change, with a lot of the service being relocation under that new name. I'd be curious to see if they go beyond a simple name change and issue, for example, a new SSN and birth certificate.
  - bonzini 6y ago
    Considering the security nonsense that SSNs are (essentially using a username as a password) they really should be replacing at least that one.
  - octoberfranklin 6y ago
    Yes, they do issue you a new SSN. In fact federal witness protection is just about the only entity that can change someone's SSN outside of the other two exceptions: (a) it contained the digits "666" or (b) it was issued consecutively with that of a relative. Both (a) and (b) are vanishingly rare nowadays.
helsinkiandrew 6y ago
Unless you're going to live as a near hermit or change country I wonder how effective all of this is in the long run without plastic surgery. If you wander in front of someone taking a photo that ends up on facebook, or socialise with people who post things on social media or someone from your home town sees you and mentions it to someone else. I think I'd always be looking over my shoulder
- yourapostasy 6y ago
  You are correct. Unless you pay for everything in cash or through a company front, it is extremely difficult to stay off the identity grid. Changing countries raises the bar, changing to a non-OECD nation raises it further, but you give up certain benefits of access to an advanced tech tree in exchange. In the US I helped a female relative obscure her trail somewhat from a stalker when she sold her residence and moved states. She could not get classified under the domestic violence identity protection program of her state until she suffered physical abuse of some kind recorded by the police. There was "only" police report of the stalker arriving outside her front door in a doorman-guarded complex, with security footage of him banging on her door for ~10 hours. Twice (after that, the complex security knew him by sight and threw him out the next three times before he gave up). So be aware that most of these types of programs across the US are reactive and not proactive. With enough money and patience, a lot of everyday people can be eventually found unless they submerge themselves into a highly-insular community. However, above a certain threshhold of money and effort, I believe the advantage accrues to the hider instead of the seeker, even with nation-state resources at the seeker's fingertips. I believe it is far more time-efficient for the seeker to burrow their way into the hider's network of contacts.
jacquesm 6y ago
"If it's good enough for you, it's good enough for me".

moksly 6y ago

I live in Denmark, where you’d really need a new official SSN to “disappear” because you can’t do much without one and the official 2 factor identity that comes with it. But this article got me wondering a bit. I work in the public sector, and it’s actually not that hard to declare someone dead and issue a new SSN, or perhaps even a fake permanent refugee permit that will be eligible for a SSN after a few years. The processes around it aren’t really that audited, and nothing about the last part of it would pop up in any audit. It’s also done by some of our lowest payed employees who are hopelessly overworked, making it even easier to hide. I wonder if anyone is selling this service illegally.

viraptor 6y ago
It depends on who do you want to disappear from though. Just server the existing social ties or become officially recognised as a new identity. The first one probably doesn't require a new SSN.

uniqueid 6y ago

I wouldn't be surprised if this becomes a thriving industry in the future. The internet has created a world in which, no matter where you go, there is never an escape from your past, no easy way to pack your bags and start fresh. On top of that, the internet opens users from any particular nation to identity theft by criminals all around the world. This state of affairs is still young. A few more decades, and many more people will be seeking out a change of identity, a new address, maybe even plastic surgery. Witness relocation: it's not just for witnesses, anymore.

shadowprofile77 6y ago
I wonder how all of these things could be achieved despite the increasingly widespread use of biometric tracking technology being connected to our faces or other aspects of our physiology. I can see hacking and selective digital profile construction being done to remove traces of one's previous digital presence then replace it with another, and I can see people cleverly forging highly sophisticated fake official identity documents to back up their new names. All of that sure, but if one's ID is both governmentally and by corporations being increasingly connected to the structure of their face, or their gait, or their eyes or some other feature that a public camera could conceivably read, then how will the near future even allow anyone to make any of these identity jumps (legal or illegal)?
- searchableguy 6y ago
  I am hoping for brain transplant to become successful. You could switch with someone else and live as a brand new person. We are also printing organs and skin using 3D printers right now. I don't see why we won't be able to change people drastically by reprinting their unique biometrics and replace through surgery. If you don't have your old hand, then your fingerprints becomes useless. You can already order kits to fake biometrics authentication/creation. https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/nov/15/fake-fingerprints-can-imitate-real-fingerprints-in-biometric-systems-research https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/nov/15/fake-fing... but this is worrying: https://venturebeat.com/2019/10/29/researchers-fool-person-detecting-ai-with-an-adversarial-t-shirt/ https://venturebeat.com/2019/10/29/researchers-fool-person-d... Just search adversarial [item] on Google.

Hamuko 6y ago

>Just like Breaking Bad. Not really considering Breaking Bad was about disappearing from the law.

Cthulhu_ 6y ago
But also from gangs, which in that series are the more dangerous.

inopinatus 6y ago

Not sure why you’re being downvoted. It is far from unreasonable to learn more about a society from the thoughtful dramas that it exports. For example, I have gained an unexpected insight into Korean constitutional jurisprudence from watching Secret Forest.

cafard 6y ago

It has to be a lot harder than it was, but it has been done.