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mongolians are also atypically short for a population with a tradition of dairying, though — those with lactase persistence are among the tallest in the world t

mongolians are also atypically short for a population with a tradition of dairying, though — those with lactase persistence are among the tallest in the world thanks to the massive caloric surplus reducing environmental selection against height in times of scarcity

cozos 6y ago
that's an interesting theory ive never heard before. Is it generally accepted that Northern Europeans are taller because their society is less prone to famine?
- AlotOfReading 6y ago
  It's relatively uncontroversial that contemporary European populations are among the tallest in the world broadly due to caloric surplus and generally good nutrition. However it also worth noting that if we go back farther than the past century or so, it was non-european populations that were among the tallest in the world. That would be populations like the Sioux, Athabascans, and Maori. This kind of points to how big a factor social, economic and political context has on population metrics like height. Moreover, certain diets and populations simply make for shorter people. Disentangling all the effects is complicated. For the data, I'm half-remembering a table from a paper I read years ago. Ourworldindata has a very similar table with pretty reasonable citations, so it checks out: https://ourworldindata.org/human-height#how-does-environment-and-living-standards-affect-the-distribution-of-heights https://ourworldindata.org/human-height#how-does-environment...
  - hbarka 6y ago
    Yes, like the divergence between South vs North Korea in just a few generations.
    - treeman79 6y ago
      Or Japanese. Older ww2 Japanese are short. Their kids are a head above them.
  - econcon 6y ago
    Or we can speculate the the societies where there is more freedom are taller. It could also be sexual selection as this stature change is too fast and usually the environment difference takes several hundred generations to show difference. The timeline is so small I'd argue it's actually free society enabling people to chase their sexual imperitive and this sexual selection is resulting in taller population, not nutrition.
paganel 6y ago
> those with lactase persistence are among the tallest in the world thanks to the massive caloric surplus That doesn't explain men from Bosnia-Herzegovina and from the former Yugoslavia, generally speaking. Even Wikipedia [1] mentions that area as being above Nordic countries like Sweden when it comes to average male height. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Average_human_height_by_country https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Average_human_height_by_countr...
- Leherenn 6y ago
  Are they supposed to be lactose intolerant? According to this link posted below [1], Montenegro and Albania are in the top 10 for milk consumption per capita. [1] http://chartsbin.com/view/1491 http://chartsbin.com/view/1491
AdrianB1 6y ago
I am the tallest by far in my extended family and also the only one without lactase persistence. My father is the tallest in his generation and also the only without lactase persistence. Not statistically significant, but worth mentioning.

cozos 6y ago

that's an interesting theory ive never heard before. Is it generally accepted that Northern Europeans are taller because their society is less prone to famine?

AlotOfReading 6y ago
It's relatively uncontroversial that contemporary European populations are among the tallest in the world broadly due to caloric surplus and generally good nutrition. However it also worth noting that if we go back farther than the past century or so, it was non-european populations that were among the tallest in the world. That would be populations like the Sioux, Athabascans, and Maori. This kind of points to how big a factor social, economic and political context has on population metrics like height. Moreover, certain diets and populations simply make for shorter people. Disentangling all the effects is complicated. For the data, I'm half-remembering a table from a paper I read years ago. Ourworldindata has a very similar table with pretty reasonable citations, so it checks out: https://ourworldindata.org/human-height#how-does-environment-and-living-standards-affect-the-distribution-of-heights https://ourworldindata.org/human-height#how-does-environment...
- hbarka 6y ago
  Yes, like the divergence between South vs North Korea in just a few generations.
  - treeman79 6y ago
    Or Japanese. Older ww2 Japanese are short. Their kids are a head above them.
- econcon 6y ago
  Or we can speculate the the societies where there is more freedom are taller. It could also be sexual selection as this stature change is too fast and usually the environment difference takes several hundred generations to show difference. The timeline is so small I'd argue it's actually free society enabling people to chase their sexual imperitive and this sexual selection is resulting in taller population, not nutrition.

paganel 6y ago

> those with lactase persistence are among the tallest in the world thanks to the massive caloric surplus That doesn't explain men from Bosnia-Herzegovina and from the former Yugoslavia, generally speaking. Even Wikipedia [1] mentions that area as being above Nordic countries like Sweden when it comes to average male height. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Average_human_height_by_country https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Average_human_height_by_countr...

Leherenn 6y ago
Are they supposed to be lactose intolerant? According to this link posted below [1], Montenegro and Albania are in the top 10 for milk consumption per capita. [1] http://chartsbin.com/view/1491 http://chartsbin.com/view/1491

AdrianB1 6y ago

I am the tallest by far in my extended family and also the only one without lactase persistence. My father is the tallest in his generation and also the only without lactase persistence. Not statistically significant, but worth mentioning.