3 ms·

I half agree on this. I agree the environmental manipulation and tactical side of the game is underdeveloped. I think a lot of that is similar monster designs.

I half agree on this. I agree the environmental manipulation and tactical side of the game is underdeveloped. I think a lot of that is similar monster designs. Despite a huge bestiary of cool monsters, when it comes to how you deal with those monsters it just boils down to flying/hopping, ranged/melee, and does it bleed something nasty. Not all of those 8 combinations need substantively different approaches, either. While you absolutely can just slot machine until you get a rigged build (which seems to be a requirement for a mass appeal roguelite), it's possible to win more consistently with other play styles. Wand editing adds a lot more actual decision making compared to BoI or RoR, so you have to actually think about building a game-winning kit of items. The focus on building a kit from random components reminds me more of Shiren The Wanderer, Brogue, FTL, or my own roguelike Hero Trap. The game ends up being about how many different ways you know to build a broken wand, which is something I can respect. The biggest problem with Noita to me is its emphasis on resource extraction. Good play involves grinding for 600+ gold in the game's first area, when a casual search for the bottom will get you under a hundred. Couple that with monsters that can usually be slowly killed without taking damage, but will deal large amounts of damage if your attention lapses, and you get a game where optimal play involves an awkward mix of long periods of focus with low interest.

Hammershaft 6y ago
Totally agree, optimal play is often just slow deliberate chip damage and tedious scouring for resources. It's a pretty common problem across roguelikes.
- jtolmar 6y ago
  Yeah. Some games fix it by having small enough dungeons that scouring them all isn't such a big deal (Brogue comes to mind). Others use a hunger clock (I think Spelunky's ghost is actually the best hunger clock I've seen). I think Noita would benefit from harder monsters, with much higher gold drops (or cheaper shops), and a tight hunger clock. Though that's somewhat at odds with the cool side dungeons (which are already at odds with the rest of the game).
  - m1gu3l 6y ago
    agree with need for more variation on combat mechanics but i absolutely hope the don’t add anything to rush me through this magical game.
    - jtolmar 6y ago
      I think something to rush the player is necessary for it to work well as a roguelite. But I also think Noita has enough cool exploratory stuff in it doesn't necessarily have to be a roguelite. It'd also be a good game with some fast travel options and a system of respawn points.

Hammershaft 6y ago

Totally agree, optimal play is often just slow deliberate chip damage and tedious scouring for resources. It's a pretty common problem across roguelikes.

jtolmar 6y ago
Yeah. Some games fix it by having small enough dungeons that scouring them all isn't such a big deal (Brogue comes to mind). Others use a hunger clock (I think Spelunky's ghost is actually the best hunger clock I've seen). I think Noita would benefit from harder monsters, with much higher gold drops (or cheaper shops), and a tight hunger clock. Though that's somewhat at odds with the cool side dungeons (which are already at odds with the rest of the game).
- m1gu3l 6y ago
  agree with need for more variation on combat mechanics but i absolutely hope the don’t add anything to rush me through this magical game.
  - jtolmar 6y ago
    I think something to rush the player is necessary for it to work well as a roguelite. But I also think Noita has enough cool exploratory stuff in it doesn't necessarily have to be a roguelite. It'd also be a good game with some fast travel options and a system of respawn points.