3 ms·

I'm talking about the experience of being a visible minority in a white country (or for that matter, a homogenous society). I'm just saying - the U.S isn't part

I'm talking about the experience of being a visible minority in a white country (or for that matter, a homogenous society). I'm just saying - the U.S isn't particularly white and it will only get more pronounced with time. Let's leave all the race discussions aside.

skissane 6y ago
We can talk about the problematic experiences of immigrant minorities without bringing race into it. For example, my friend's father moved from Uruguay to Australia in the 1970s, and my friend told me his dad was teased at work for his accent and gaps in knowledge of English. Like most Uruguayans, he is of European descent, so arguably just as "white" as the English-speaking Australians who were teasing him were. You chose to bring race into the discussion, when one can make the same point without any reference to race.
- joelbluminator 6y ago
  Absolutely right. Yet visible minorities usually have it worse. Your friend could at least go to the supermarket without getting stares.
  - skissane 6y ago
    I agree in principle, although exactly who counts as a "visible minority" is a bit of a complex question. In Sydney, Australia, a woman wearing a niqab is still a rare sight, and she is likely to get starred at, a lot–even other Muslims are going to stare at her. Women wearing hijabs are a far more common sight, so they will get starred at a lot less, although I'm sure they will report being starred at sometimes too. But, a lot of Muslim women don't wear any head covering – like the women in my uncle's family – indeed, in Albanian Muslim culture, women rarely cover their heads, and a woman who starts wearing a hijab is likely to be suspected of religious fundamentalism, which is viewed about as negatively in their culture as in my own. Should my uncle's family be considered a "visible minority" then? Sydney is over 20% Asian (including East Asian, Southeast Asian, and South Asian people in that term)–Asian Australians are a minority, and obviously a visible one–but do Asian people get starred at in Sydney solely on account of their race? You usually stare at the unusual, but in a city which is over 20% Asian, there is nothing unusual about seeing a Chinese/Indian/Japanese/Korean/Vietnamese/Filipino/etc person, you see them every day, you count them among your friends, classmates, coworkers, neighbours, etc. I remember one time I ventured with a Finnish colleague to a working class bar in Bangalore, and we got a lot of stares there, because nobody was expecting to see people like us in such an establishment – by contrast, in the airport, hotel, offices, shopping centres, tourist sites, etc, nobody starred at us, because Indians are used to encountering foreigners in those places.
    - joelbluminator 6y ago
      So we basically have no argument. All I was saying was that as the West is demographically changing, visible minorities will have an easier time. Your examples just demonstrate my point. Maybe in 60 years the whole notion of visible minority won't even exist in the West. Now all that is just demographics. If some crazy fascist leader rises to power, which doesn't seem so far fetched nowadays, minorities may suffer again.
      - skissane 6y ago
        Right, as I said, I never had a disagreement with your fundamental point, I just think your way of putting it was flawed

skissane 6y ago

We can talk about the problematic experiences of immigrant minorities without bringing race into it. For example, my friend's father moved from Uruguay to Australia in the 1970s, and my friend told me his dad was teased at work for his accent and gaps in knowledge of English. Like most Uruguayans, he is of European descent, so arguably just as "white" as the English-speaking Australians who were teasing him were. You chose to bring race into the discussion, when one can make the same point without any reference to race.

joelbluminator 6y ago
Absolutely right. Yet visible minorities usually have it worse. Your friend could at least go to the supermarket without getting stares.
- skissane 6y ago
  I agree in principle, although exactly who counts as a "visible minority" is a bit of a complex question. In Sydney, Australia, a woman wearing a niqab is still a rare sight, and she is likely to get starred at, a lot–even other Muslims are going to stare at her. Women wearing hijabs are a far more common sight, so they will get starred at a lot less, although I'm sure they will report being starred at sometimes too. But, a lot of Muslim women don't wear any head covering – like the women in my uncle's family – indeed, in Albanian Muslim culture, women rarely cover their heads, and a woman who starts wearing a hijab is likely to be suspected of religious fundamentalism, which is viewed about as negatively in their culture as in my own. Should my uncle's family be considered a "visible minority" then? Sydney is over 20% Asian (including East Asian, Southeast Asian, and South Asian people in that term)–Asian Australians are a minority, and obviously a visible one–but do Asian people get starred at in Sydney solely on account of their race? You usually stare at the unusual, but in a city which is over 20% Asian, there is nothing unusual about seeing a Chinese/Indian/Japanese/Korean/Vietnamese/Filipino/etc person, you see them every day, you count them among your friends, classmates, coworkers, neighbours, etc. I remember one time I ventured with a Finnish colleague to a working class bar in Bangalore, and we got a lot of stares there, because nobody was expecting to see people like us in such an establishment – by contrast, in the airport, hotel, offices, shopping centres, tourist sites, etc, nobody starred at us, because Indians are used to encountering foreigners in those places.
  - joelbluminator 6y ago
    So we basically have no argument. All I was saying was that as the West is demographically changing, visible minorities will have an easier time. Your examples just demonstrate my point. Maybe in 60 years the whole notion of visible minority won't even exist in the West. Now all that is just demographics. If some crazy fascist leader rises to power, which doesn't seem so far fetched nowadays, minorities may suffer again.
    - skissane 6y ago
      Right, as I said, I never had a disagreement with your fundamental point, I just think your way of putting it was flawed