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Responding to one of Carmack's follow-up tweets (https://twitter.com/ID_AA_Carmack/status/1302652989610618882 https://twitter.com/ID_AA_Carmack/status/130265298

Responding to one of Carmack's follow-up tweets (https://twitter.com/ID_AA_Carmack/status/1302652989610618882 https://twitter.com/ID_AA_Carmack/status/1302652989610618882): > Yes, it can be very impressive watching people using the power tools to maximum advantage, and sometimes is can be a dramatic win, but I usually think that it adds up to... a few minutes saved a day? I think measuring the gains of text editing features in terms of time is a distraction. Expressive editing features take something tedious and make it effortless. It makes it easy to do something that I'd normally put off. But the reason text editing features end up not being that important is that if the task is mission critical, you'll end up just soldiering through, even if it's tedious. Therefore it's an incremental benefit not a revolutionary one. I like text editing features because I personally like being organized, not because I feel like it makes me a more effective programmer. It lets me indulge myself in keeping code organized without that becoming a time sink.

maxov 6y ago
This is very similar to how I look at it. Expressive editing features do not have a direct impact on my productivity when coding. However, for those 1-2 hour focused coding sessions, it is easer for me to enter and stay in flow when I feel a better connection to my tools. Since I do perhaps a dozen of those a week, I am able to accomplish more and do it more enjoyably, even if I only spend 20% of my work time in one of those sessions. I am not sure exactly how much the productivity increase is because I haven't tested it rigorously (honestly not sure how to even measure that), but I'd guess it's still only 5% at most. The benefits to my happiness and fulfillment when coding are definitely noticeable though, and I think it is because I am able to spend more time in flow. Edit: and for what it's worth, there are things that arguably have much greater impact on my ability to stay in flow than just the text editor: how good the debugger/REPL is, my familiarity with the language and libraries related to what I'm doing, etc.
majkinetor 6y ago
Few minutes gain is simply not true. Its IMO closer to an hour. Having ability to jump asap to any letter on the screen and any file in the project in few keypresses without browsing trough the tree and son on, is massive speed up. It doesn't just save time, it saves focus.
- switch11 6y ago
  This 100% -> Few minutes gain is simply not true. Its IMO closer to an hour. Having ability to jump asap to any letter on the screen and any file in the project in few keypresses without browsing trough the tree and son on, is massive speed up. It doesn't just save time, it saves focus. * would argue that a lot of people who write things like 'it only saves a few minutes a day' have never actually tracked how much time it actually saves * one good thing worth doing is to get a tool that tracks how much time you spend on different applications and websites during your work day it will TRANSFORM your understanding of how you use your time
- brandonmenc 6y ago
  These are not "power user" features. Every single IDE and text editor for programmers can do this stuff, and they are often the only features that 90% of users learn.
  - majkinetor 6y ago
    Some of them are, most of them are not - you cant really jump to ANY letter on screen without vim plugin (AFAIK). Having quick access to options is paramount - like vscode F1. Besides, huge majority of IDE users do not use keyboard shortcuts but browser trough its GUIs, even if the feature exists. Its the IDE mindset (personal experience).
    - brandonmenc 6y ago
      > you cant really jump to ANY letter on screen without vim plugin There are Ace Jump [0] plugins for most IDEs. imo, easier to use and more powerful than stock vi navigation commands. > huge majority of IDE users do not use keyboard shortcuts but browser trough its GUIs Does it count if you "browse the GUI" without ever touching the mouse? I use the "search everywhere" [1] dialog in JetBrains by pressing double-shift all the time. When I used emacs, I would M-x tab-complete commands all the time. Same thing. Which requires more effort: pressing 4-ish keys to spell out an editor command you use only a few times a day or trying to memorize every arcane key combination? Also, does tabbing in the emacs command buffer count as "browsing the GUI?" I think so. I say it all the time, but I think a lot of power vi/emacs users have not touched a modern IDE in a long time. Everything is keyboard accessible nowadays, and I would argue vastly more discoverable compared to vi/emacs. I also think that there is a strange magical thinking-esque hang-up against any UI that can't be drawn in a terminal. [0] https://github.com/acejump/AceJump https://github.com/acejump/AceJump [1] https://www.jetbrains.com/help/idea/searching-everywhere.html https://www.jetbrains.com/help/idea/searching-everywhere.htm...

maxov 6y ago

This is very similar to how I look at it. Expressive editing features do not have a direct impact on my productivity when coding. However, for those 1-2 hour focused coding sessions, it is easer for me to enter and stay in flow when I feel a better connection to my tools. Since I do perhaps a dozen of those a week, I am able to accomplish more and do it more enjoyably, even if I only spend 20% of my work time in one of those sessions. I am not sure exactly how much the productivity increase is because I haven't tested it rigorously (honestly not sure how to even measure that), but I'd guess it's still only 5% at most. The benefits to my happiness and fulfillment when coding are definitely noticeable though, and I think it is because I am able to spend more time in flow. Edit: and for what it's worth, there are things that arguably have much greater impact on my ability to stay in flow than just the text editor: how good the debugger/REPL is, my familiarity with the language and libraries related to what I'm doing, etc.

majkinetor 6y ago

Few minutes gain is simply not true. Its IMO closer to an hour. Having ability to jump asap to any letter on the screen and any file in the project in few keypresses without browsing trough the tree and son on, is massive speed up. It doesn't just save time, it saves focus.

switch11 6y ago
This 100% -> Few minutes gain is simply not true. Its IMO closer to an hour. Having ability to jump asap to any letter on the screen and any file in the project in few keypresses without browsing trough the tree and son on, is massive speed up. It doesn't just save time, it saves focus. * would argue that a lot of people who write things like 'it only saves a few minutes a day' have never actually tracked how much time it actually saves * one good thing worth doing is to get a tool that tracks how much time you spend on different applications and websites during your work day it will TRANSFORM your understanding of how you use your time
brandonmenc 6y ago
These are not "power user" features. Every single IDE and text editor for programmers can do this stuff, and they are often the only features that 90% of users learn.
- majkinetor 6y ago
  Some of them are, most of them are not - you cant really jump to ANY letter on screen without vim plugin (AFAIK). Having quick access to options is paramount - like vscode F1. Besides, huge majority of IDE users do not use keyboard shortcuts but browser trough its GUIs, even if the feature exists. Its the IDE mindset (personal experience).
  - brandonmenc 6y ago
    > you cant really jump to ANY letter on screen without vim plugin There are Ace Jump [0] plugins for most IDEs. imo, easier to use and more powerful than stock vi navigation commands. > huge majority of IDE users do not use keyboard shortcuts but browser trough its GUIs Does it count if you "browse the GUI" without ever touching the mouse? I use the "search everywhere" [1] dialog in JetBrains by pressing double-shift all the time. When I used emacs, I would M-x tab-complete commands all the time. Same thing. Which requires more effort: pressing 4-ish keys to spell out an editor command you use only a few times a day or trying to memorize every arcane key combination? Also, does tabbing in the emacs command buffer count as "browsing the GUI?" I think so. I say it all the time, but I think a lot of power vi/emacs users have not touched a modern IDE in a long time. Everything is keyboard accessible nowadays, and I would argue vastly more discoverable compared to vi/emacs. I also think that there is a strange magical thinking-esque hang-up against any UI that can't be drawn in a terminal. [0] https://github.com/acejump/AceJump https://github.com/acejump/AceJump [1] https://www.jetbrains.com/help/idea/searching-everywhere.html https://www.jetbrains.com/help/idea/searching-everywhere.htm...