7 ms·

If this BS going on will end up in couple of months they might be able to move back soon. If not, living somewhere abroad without close ones is going to hurt th

by ozim 6y ago

If this BS going on will end up in couple of months they might be able to move back soon. If not, living somewhere abroad without close ones is going to hurt them in the long run. I moved out from my home country and in the place I live now people are nice, but I am never going to be one of them (so there are also not nice people, but it is easier to deal with not nice people from your own country). Some people have it even worse, because I can go back to my own country and have my friends from school and family quite close by. There are people who are children of migrants that are still treated on the streets like they are not part of that society even though they grew up in that country. It gets even worse for them when they go to visit their parents country because they look familiar to people but when they speak they use English or broken local language which makes them foreign there as well. In the end they are not welcome in the place they grew up, they are not welcome in the place where they fit in by looks. They don't have a place in the entire world they can go and feel like home.

morelisp 6y ago
The term for this in English is "third-culture kid." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_culture_kid https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_culture_kid
joelbluminator 6y ago
You have quite a negative view of immigration. It works well for many people (while for others it doesn't). Children are quite adaptable. The West is long ago not 100% white and it's only gonna become more pronounced the coming decades. It's mixed. Whites will become the minority in U.S and the UK in the coming decades. It's not that different in West Europe, Canada, Australia, etc. Overall it's a good trend for immigrants. Those children you describe may have a few rough episodes in their upbringing, but won't they have more rough episodes growing up in Belarus? Some proportion is needed.
- throwaway5398 6y ago
  >Whites will become the minority in U.S and the UK in the coming decades. It's not that different in West Europe, Canada, Australia, etc. Overall it's a good trend for immigrants. 1. The US may become a white-minority country. Europe, not really. Whites are still the majority, and are going to remain so in the distant future. The "Great Replacement" isn't real. 2. Most immigrants to EU countries are from other countries within the EU and white themselves. 3. Many people from outside the EU, even though they're not considered "white" by Westerners, look white from the outside (think of e.g. Arabs) and the differences are purely cultural. Within a few generations you wouldn't be able to tell the difference between them and "white" people. 4. One's ability to integrate and be welcomed depends far more on cultural differences than "looking" different. This is why people from former colonies immigrate to the country that colonized them - lasting vestigial ties and a common language help far more than sticking to people who share one's skin color.
  - skissane 6y ago
    > 3. Many people from outside the EU, even though they're not considered "white" by Westerners, look white from the outside (think of e.g. Arabs) and the differences are purely cultural. Within a few generations you wouldn't be able to tell the difference between them and "white" people. The US government officially considers Arab people to be "white". [1] Some Arab Americans disagree with this and believe they are not "white", other Arab Americans identify with the "white" label and want to keep it. The former group have been lobbying the US government to create a separate category, e.g. "Middle Eastern and North African", thus far non-successfully. Unlike the US, I don't believe most EU countries have a formally adopted definition of "white" (the EU as a whole certainly doesn't.) But, just like in the US, it would be wrong to think there would be a single viewpoint. So the statement that Arab people are "not considered 'white' by Westerners" is a bit dubious – some Westerners no doubt think that, other Westerners actually do think Arab people are "white", yet other Westerners just don't think about the concept "white" or its definition that much at all, or think that "white" is an arbitrary category which should not be used [1] https://www.census.gov/topics/population/race/about.html https://www.census.gov/topics/population/race/about.html
    - joelbluminator 6y ago
      Perhaps some will consider Arabs white (which I doubt), but still many will see them as "other", which is the same thing, especially if they are muslim.
      - skissane 6y ago
        I'm an Australian from a Catholic family of British and Irish descent. My aunt married a Muslim man of ethnic Albanian descent (not actually from Albania, his family come from the Albanian minority in North Macedonia). I've met members of his family on a number of occasions over the years. I never thought of them as "other". I've never really thought about the question of whether he is "white", but his skin has always been paler than my own
        6y ago
- skissane 6y ago
  > Whites will become the minority in U.S and the UK in the coming decades Regarding the US, that's a bit of a misleading statement. US Census Bureau projections have "white" people as a majority in the US until 2060, which is as far out as their projections go [1]. The claim that "whites" are going to become a minority soon is arrived at by redefining "white" to exclude white-identified Hispanic people. Indeed, "non-Hispanic whites" are projected to become a minority in the US by 2045. But "whites" overall are not going to become a minority in the foreseeable future. In 2060, the US Census Bureau projects the US will be 68% white-identified (white-identified Hispanic people included). By comparison, their actual estimates for 2016 are that the US was 76% white-identified (again, Hispanic people included). Although their projections don't go out that far, it seems likely the US will still have a white-identified majority at the start of the next century. [1] https://www2.census.gov/programs-surveys/popproj/tables/2017/2017-summary-tables/np2017-t4.xlsx https://www2.census.gov/programs-surveys/popproj/tables/2017...
  - joelbluminator 6y ago
    I'm talking about the experience of being a visible minority in a white country (or for that matter, a homogenous society). I'm just saying - the U.S isn't particularly white and it will only get more pronounced with time. Let's leave all the race discussions aside.
    - skissane 6y ago
      We can talk about the problematic experiences of immigrant minorities without bringing race into it. For example, my friend's father moved from Uruguay to Australia in the 1970s, and my friend told me his dad was teased at work for his accent and gaps in knowledge of English. Like most Uruguayans, he is of European descent, so arguably just as "white" as the English-speaking Australians who were teasing him were. You chose to bring race into the discussion, when one can make the same point without any reference to race.
      - joelbluminator 6y ago
        Absolutely right. Yet visible minorities usually have it worse. Your friend could at least go to the supermarket without getting stares.
pawelmurias 6y ago
People in Belarous are white and their children can very easily blend in most places in the EU.
- throwaway5398 6y ago
  As if one's ability to blend depended on one's skin color alone, and that wasn't trumped by culture and language.
  - bonoboTP 6y ago
    The next gen can blend in very easily, if they go to kindergarten and school there. They will grow up bilingual and only use the original language at home, and may not even pass on the language to the 3rd generation (because it's seen as a useless extra burden and the 3rd gen can talk to their grandparents - the 1st gen - in the new language). Happens all the time in Europe.
- isbvhodnvemrwvn 6y ago
  That's an extremely american response. I guarantee you someone from Belarus would pretty much never be seen as a native Pole unless they spoke flawless Polish (no accent at all).

by ozim 6y ago

morelisp 6y ago

The term for this in English is "third-culture kid." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_culture_kid https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_culture_kid

joelbluminator 6y ago

You have quite a negative view of immigration. It works well for many people (while for others it doesn't). Children are quite adaptable. The West is long ago not 100% white and it's only gonna become more pronounced the coming decades. It's mixed. Whites will become the minority in U.S and the UK in the coming decades. It's not that different in West Europe, Canada, Australia, etc. Overall it's a good trend for immigrants. Those children you describe may have a few rough episodes in their upbringing, but won't they have more rough episodes growing up in Belarus? Some proportion is needed.

throwaway5398 6y ago
>Whites will become the minority in U.S and the UK in the coming decades. It's not that different in West Europe, Canada, Australia, etc. Overall it's a good trend for immigrants. 1. The US may become a white-minority country. Europe, not really. Whites are still the majority, and are going to remain so in the distant future. The "Great Replacement" isn't real. 2. Most immigrants to EU countries are from other countries within the EU and white themselves. 3. Many people from outside the EU, even though they're not considered "white" by Westerners, look white from the outside (think of e.g. Arabs) and the differences are purely cultural. Within a few generations you wouldn't be able to tell the difference between them and "white" people. 4. One's ability to integrate and be welcomed depends far more on cultural differences than "looking" different. This is why people from former colonies immigrate to the country that colonized them - lasting vestigial ties and a common language help far more than sticking to people who share one's skin color.
- skissane 6y ago
  > 3. Many people from outside the EU, even though they're not considered "white" by Westerners, look white from the outside (think of e.g. Arabs) and the differences are purely cultural. Within a few generations you wouldn't be able to tell the difference between them and "white" people. The US government officially considers Arab people to be "white". [1] Some Arab Americans disagree with this and believe they are not "white", other Arab Americans identify with the "white" label and want to keep it. The former group have been lobbying the US government to create a separate category, e.g. "Middle Eastern and North African", thus far non-successfully. Unlike the US, I don't believe most EU countries have a formally adopted definition of "white" (the EU as a whole certainly doesn't.) But, just like in the US, it would be wrong to think there would be a single viewpoint. So the statement that Arab people are "not considered 'white' by Westerners" is a bit dubious – some Westerners no doubt think that, other Westerners actually do think Arab people are "white", yet other Westerners just don't think about the concept "white" or its definition that much at all, or think that "white" is an arbitrary category which should not be used [1] https://www.census.gov/topics/population/race/about.html https://www.census.gov/topics/population/race/about.html
  - joelbluminator 6y ago
    Perhaps some will consider Arabs white (which I doubt), but still many will see them as "other", which is the same thing, especially if they are muslim.
    - skissane 6y ago
      I'm an Australian from a Catholic family of British and Irish descent. My aunt married a Muslim man of ethnic Albanian descent (not actually from Albania, his family come from the Albanian minority in North Macedonia). I've met members of his family on a number of occasions over the years. I never thought of them as "other". I've never really thought about the question of whether he is "white", but his skin has always been paler than my own
      - 6y ago
skissane 6y ago
> Whites will become the minority in U.S and the UK in the coming decades Regarding the US, that's a bit of a misleading statement. US Census Bureau projections have "white" people as a majority in the US until 2060, which is as far out as their projections go [1]. The claim that "whites" are going to become a minority soon is arrived at by redefining "white" to exclude white-identified Hispanic people. Indeed, "non-Hispanic whites" are projected to become a minority in the US by 2045. But "whites" overall are not going to become a minority in the foreseeable future. In 2060, the US Census Bureau projects the US will be 68% white-identified (white-identified Hispanic people included). By comparison, their actual estimates for 2016 are that the US was 76% white-identified (again, Hispanic people included). Although their projections don't go out that far, it seems likely the US will still have a white-identified majority at the start of the next century. [1] https://www2.census.gov/programs-surveys/popproj/tables/2017/2017-summary-tables/np2017-t4.xlsx https://www2.census.gov/programs-surveys/popproj/tables/2017...
- joelbluminator 6y ago
  I'm talking about the experience of being a visible minority in a white country (or for that matter, a homogenous society). I'm just saying - the U.S isn't particularly white and it will only get more pronounced with time. Let's leave all the race discussions aside.
  - skissane 6y ago
    We can talk about the problematic experiences of immigrant minorities without bringing race into it. For example, my friend's father moved from Uruguay to Australia in the 1970s, and my friend told me his dad was teased at work for his accent and gaps in knowledge of English. Like most Uruguayans, he is of European descent, so arguably just as "white" as the English-speaking Australians who were teasing him were. You chose to bring race into the discussion, when one can make the same point without any reference to race.
    - joelbluminator 6y ago
      Absolutely right. Yet visible minorities usually have it worse. Your friend could at least go to the supermarket without getting stares.

pawelmurias 6y ago

People in Belarous are white and their children can very easily blend in most places in the EU.

throwaway5398 6y ago
As if one's ability to blend depended on one's skin color alone, and that wasn't trumped by culture and language.
- bonoboTP 6y ago
  The next gen can blend in very easily, if they go to kindergarten and school there. They will grow up bilingual and only use the original language at home, and may not even pass on the language to the 3rd generation (because it's seen as a useless extra burden and the 3rd gen can talk to their grandparents - the 1st gen - in the new language). Happens all the time in Europe.
isbvhodnvemrwvn 6y ago
That's an extremely american response. I guarantee you someone from Belarus would pretty much never be seen as a native Pole unless they spoke flawless Polish (no accent at all).