4 ms·

It is important to consider that cash is not “free” to accept and handle (consider the needs for safe storage and depositing, as well as losses due to skimming

by IdoRA 6y ago

It is important to consider that cash is not “free” to accept and handle (consider the needs for safe storage and depositing, as well as losses due to skimming and other forms of theft). The overhead in handling cash, for some business sectors, greatly exceeds the transaction costs associated with credit and debit cards. An option that preserves privacy but doesn’t have the overhead of cash is needed.

jliptzin 6y ago
Yea, maybe large amounts of cash to the point where you become a target for armed robbers, but handling an average amount of cash in a retail location where most people pay electronically anyway is not really that hard. Isn’t this why Brinks exists?
- coredog64 6y ago
  A loooooong time ago, I worked in convenience stores, and late at night we were required to keep less than 40 dollars in the register. If someone needed more change or bills that we didn't have, we could "buy" it out of the change safe, but that would only dispense 10-20 dollars every 30 minutes. The point here is that doesn't really require much money to be a target.
- 477rruruurur 6y ago
  I got robbed twice over the course of a year while delivering weed (cash business) in California, I imagine pizza people face similar hurdles. Can't wait for cash to die personally.
tzs 6y ago
> An option that preserves privacy but doesn’t have the overhead of cash is needed. How about this? 1. Only require certain businesses to accept cash. Make sure this includes some classes of business that most people have fairly reasonable access to. Grocery stores and convenience stores, for example. 2. Require those business to sell prepaid debit cards for cash. The debit cards must have no extra fees for purchase. A $20 debit card for example would cost $20 cash. No ID is required to buy these cards. 3. The debit cards would be subject to the normal processing fees upon use. 4. Other business can choose to not accept cash, but they must access the prepaid debit cards, and cannot charge any fees for them that they do not charge for other non-cash payment methods.
- paulryanrogers 6y ago
  Gift cards are nearly this. Though they lock into the merchant and laws for escheatment vary by state. (Worked in gift and loyalty for almost a decade.) As I understand it the identity rules around gift Visa/MasterCard are because of money laundering.
- mindslight 6y ago
  Prepaid debit cards are straight out as they all require people to assent to a lengthy contract simply to use them, promulgated by the same companies dragging their feet on privacy preserving digital payments (20+ year old technology at this point). Until we get widespread private payments that are accessible to all without appeasing banks, preserving the basic option of cash is important.
  - tzs 6y ago
    That's for reloadable cards. You can by a preloaded non-reloadable card anonymously for cash and use them without signing any contract.
    - mindslight 6y ago
      Without physically signing anything, yes. But non-reloadable cards still come with a long nastygram purporting to give away your rights to privacy, recourse, etc. Who knows how many of the terms would hold up in court, but by the time you're there you've already lost.
golemotron 6y ago
The overhead of cash has always been there. It can be factored into the business model as it always has been.
Slartie 6y ago
> The overhead in handling cash, for some business sectors, greatly exceeds the transaction costs associated with credit and debit cards. What are these business sectors exactly? I assume we are talking about brick-and-mortar businesses only, because cash being problematic in online commerce is a no-brainer, so that consequently isn't what this EFF demand is about. In which brick-and-mortar style businesses is cash handling more expensive than card handling, assuming the same total amount of money is handled in both cases? When it comes to transaction costs of cash versus credit cards in the US, the first thing that comes to my mind are these gas stations offering two prices for the same type of gas: a lower one for cash payment and a higher one for credit card payment. I guess gas stations can be ruled out of being in that ominous list of business sectors?

by IdoRA 6y ago

jliptzin 6y ago

Yea, maybe large amounts of cash to the point where you become a target for armed robbers, but handling an average amount of cash in a retail location where most people pay electronically anyway is not really that hard. Isn’t this why Brinks exists?

coredog64 6y ago
A loooooong time ago, I worked in convenience stores, and late at night we were required to keep less than 40 dollars in the register. If someone needed more change or bills that we didn't have, we could "buy" it out of the change safe, but that would only dispense 10-20 dollars every 30 minutes. The point here is that doesn't really require much money to be a target.
477rruruurur 6y ago
I got robbed twice over the course of a year while delivering weed (cash business) in California, I imagine pizza people face similar hurdles. Can't wait for cash to die personally.

tzs 6y ago

> An option that preserves privacy but doesn’t have the overhead of cash is needed. How about this? 1. Only require certain businesses to accept cash. Make sure this includes some classes of business that most people have fairly reasonable access to. Grocery stores and convenience stores, for example. 2. Require those business to sell prepaid debit cards for cash. The debit cards must have no extra fees for purchase. A $20 debit card for example would cost $20 cash. No ID is required to buy these cards. 3. The debit cards would be subject to the normal processing fees upon use. 4. Other business can choose to not accept cash, but they must access the prepaid debit cards, and cannot charge any fees for them that they do not charge for other non-cash payment methods.

paulryanrogers 6y ago
Gift cards are nearly this. Though they lock into the merchant and laws for escheatment vary by state. (Worked in gift and loyalty for almost a decade.) As I understand it the identity rules around gift Visa/MasterCard are because of money laundering.
mindslight 6y ago
Prepaid debit cards are straight out as they all require people to assent to a lengthy contract simply to use them, promulgated by the same companies dragging their feet on privacy preserving digital payments (20+ year old technology at this point). Until we get widespread private payments that are accessible to all without appeasing banks, preserving the basic option of cash is important.
- tzs 6y ago
  That's for reloadable cards. You can by a preloaded non-reloadable card anonymously for cash and use them without signing any contract.
  - mindslight 6y ago
    Without physically signing anything, yes. But non-reloadable cards still come with a long nastygram purporting to give away your rights to privacy, recourse, etc. Who knows how many of the terms would hold up in court, but by the time you're there you've already lost.

golemotron 6y ago

The overhead of cash has always been there. It can be factored into the business model as it always has been.

Slartie 6y ago

> The overhead in handling cash, for some business sectors, greatly exceeds the transaction costs associated with credit and debit cards. What are these business sectors exactly? I assume we are talking about brick-and-mortar businesses only, because cash being problematic in online commerce is a no-brainer, so that consequently isn't what this EFF demand is about. In which brick-and-mortar style businesses is cash handling more expensive than card handling, assuming the same total amount of money is handled in both cases? When it comes to transaction costs of cash versus credit cards in the US, the first thing that comes to my mind are these gas stations offering two prices for the same type of gas: a lower one for cash payment and a higher one for credit card payment. I guess gas stations can be ruled out of being in that ominous list of business sectors?