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The nation state does not exist because of boundaries occurring in nature. The nation state does not exist because it describes the places where different ethn

The nation state does not exist because of boundaries occurring in nature. The nation state does not exist because it describes the places where different ethnic groups live. The nation state does not exist to circumscribe natural regions of trade. The nation state does not exist because someone's gods decreed it. If it's not learned, then how exactly do you think the notion of the nation state came to be? Is your problem that it's defined by powerful cabals via force? Is that your complaint? That we can't "unlearn" the point of someone else's gun? In that case, I suppose I agree.

rbecker 6y ago
> The nation state does not exist because it describes the places where different ethnic groups live. It comes very close a lot of the time, or decays to that. See the 92% Han China, or the split of Czecho-Slovakia and Yugoslavia along ethnic lines. A split of you're lucky, genocide if you're not: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocides_in_history https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocides_in_history
- emteycz 6y ago
  About Czechoslovakia... You know there was a numerous ethnic minority of Germans before the aftermath of second world war, right? We pushed them out because of nation state ideology, which gained prominence after first and then especially second world war. Before then, people were Bohemians, and they spoke like and culturally were Germans, Austrians, Moravians, Czechs, Silesians, Slovaks, etc.
  - rbecker 6y ago
    "It comes very close a lot of the time" doesn't imply the fit is perfect, so minorities are to be expected. And your implication that before WWI, different ethnic groups coexisting peacefully in shared states was the norm, couldn't be more wrong. Even in antiquity, there's examples of one ethnic group banding together to vanquish another, such as the ancient Hebrew genocides of Amalekites [1] and Canaanites [2]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amalek#Amalekites_in_the_Hebrew_Bible https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amalek#Amalekites_in_the_Hebre... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canaan#Hebrew_Bible https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canaan#Hebrew_Bible
    - emteycz 6y ago
      What I was saying is that the 'closely matching borders' are a completely artificial thing. Not even 'more or less', it was completely off until the nation state ideology-fueled expulsion. It closely matched a different thing.
dogma1138 6y ago
>The nation state does not exist because of boundaries occurring in nature. Open a map and see just how many borders both historically and today were mountain ranges, rivers and other terrain that served as a natural border. >The nation state does not exist because it describes the places where different ethnic groups live. For the most part it very much does. The few exceptions were this didn’t happen and the nation failed to develop a new national ethnic identity those experiments ended up in disaster, see Lebanon, The Balkans etc. >The nation state does not exist to circumscribe natural regions of trade. Historically this is very much how city states and later on nation states came to be, even during the imperial age this trade was a key factor in how administrative and autonomous regions came to be.

rbecker 6y ago

> The nation state does not exist because it describes the places where different ethnic groups live. It comes very close a lot of the time, or decays to that. See the 92% Han China, or the split of Czecho-Slovakia and Yugoslavia along ethnic lines. A split of you're lucky, genocide if you're not: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocides_in_history https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocides_in_history

emteycz 6y ago
About Czechoslovakia... You know there was a numerous ethnic minority of Germans before the aftermath of second world war, right? We pushed them out because of nation state ideology, which gained prominence after first and then especially second world war. Before then, people were Bohemians, and they spoke like and culturally were Germans, Austrians, Moravians, Czechs, Silesians, Slovaks, etc.
- rbecker 6y ago
  "It comes very close a lot of the time" doesn't imply the fit is perfect, so minorities are to be expected. And your implication that before WWI, different ethnic groups coexisting peacefully in shared states was the norm, couldn't be more wrong. Even in antiquity, there's examples of one ethnic group banding together to vanquish another, such as the ancient Hebrew genocides of Amalekites [1] and Canaanites [2]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amalek#Amalekites_in_the_Hebrew_Bible https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amalek#Amalekites_in_the_Hebre... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canaan#Hebrew_Bible https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canaan#Hebrew_Bible
  - emteycz 6y ago
    What I was saying is that the 'closely matching borders' are a completely artificial thing. Not even 'more or less', it was completely off until the nation state ideology-fueled expulsion. It closely matched a different thing.

dogma1138 6y ago

>The nation state does not exist because of boundaries occurring in nature. Open a map and see just how many borders both historically and today were mountain ranges, rivers and other terrain that served as a natural border. >The nation state does not exist because it describes the places where different ethnic groups live. For the most part it very much does. The few exceptions were this didn’t happen and the nation failed to develop a new national ethnic identity those experiments ended up in disaster, see Lebanon, The Balkans etc. >The nation state does not exist to circumscribe natural regions of trade. Historically this is very much how city states and later on nation states came to be, even during the imperial age this trade was a key factor in how administrative and autonomous regions came to be.