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I'm pretty sure lots of BLM supporters condemned Xavier Johnson... It's true that some activists tolerate and accept violence within their cause but that is not
by sammorrowdrums 6y ago
I'm pretty sure lots of BLM supporters condemned Xavier Johnson... It's true that some activists tolerate and accept violence within their cause but that is not universally held, and while issues with police violence do complicate things, I agree with you that violent acts deserve condemnation.
The key problem you highlight with my analogy is not quite correct (although most if not all analogies have some flaws). There are various attempts at organisation and leadership in the Church, but there are also thousands of splits, sub-groups and even violence that has not always been universally condemned (such as in Northern Ireland where I'm from), as well as sanctioned in the Crusades.
An organisation that can have condemned violence while having encouraged crusades, and have members like the IRA does certainly seem like the kind of varied decentralised (or at least multi-centred) organisation that can have internally conflicting beliefs yet frequently be considered as a single entity externally. That was more my point. If you think BLM isn't a broad church, my guess is you don't know that many BLM supporters? My experience has been that a wide range of people support BLM, and most of them do not support murderous rampages, even if they can comprehend why the anger that manifested might have existed in the first place.
My experience in Northern Ireland also makes me extremely cautious about the mistake of retaliatory violence, but anyway. I'm still unconvinced that you could call BLM a singular organisations with all actions done by association attributable directly to it.
- abduhl 6y agoWe are talking past each other. You are convinced your viewpoint is correct while I am convinced mine is correct. The reality is that we are engaging in an exercise of line drawing. You draw the line for "actions undertaken by an individual attributable to the group" at a different place than I do. I also doubt that your mind can be changed on where the line should be drawn, judging by your retreat to a "you must not know many BLM supporters" argument. I do know many Black Lives Matter supporters. I also know that many of them no longer support BLM (note that I put BLM, not Black Lives Matter) because the movement has been co-opted by extremists. The second group includes me. While your experience may be distinct and real to you, I urge you to consider the impact that extremists have on the overall movement and how continuing to try to split hairs about who is and who is not a member of BLM while not vocally condemning and ostracizing extremists from what you view as the movement galvanizes not just BLM opponents but also neutral parties who agree with Black Lives Matter. Actions have consequences.
- sammorrowdrums 6y agoWell, I can see where you were coming from. As you point out, it is frustratingly ambiguous that BLM the phrase and the organisation are the same acronym. I'm certainly not sure everyone who has funded BLM the organisation fully agrees or understands the difference either! Thanks for clarifying what you mean.
- themgt 6y agoHere's a video of BLM/Antifa protestors in Portland 1 week ago celebrating after one of their security detail apparently murdered a right-wing protester in cold-blood: > "I am not sad that a fucking fascist died tonight" crowd cheers https://clips.twitch.tv/TiredFunnySmoothieTwitchRPG https://clips.twitch.tv/TiredFunnySmoothieTwitchRPG
- sammorrowdrums 6y agoThere is a scary level of support / apathy to violence. Don't get me wrong. I am never going to support violence and murder, and I too will judge those that do. I am simply seeking to avoid generalisation. I'm not naïve to movements being co-opted. I have witnessed that first hand numerous times.