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I read (probably on HN) that Google keeps paying FF, so Google can point to FF as a viable competitor during anti-trust investigations. Since it seems those inv
by Hnrobert42 6y ago
I read (probably on HN) that Google keeps paying FF, so Google can point to FF as a viable competitor during anti-trust investigations. Since it seems those investigations are able to launch in the US, it will be interesting to see what happens to the relationship afterwards.
- pmoriarty 6y agoFirefox wouldn't even need the money if web standards weren't so insanely bloated that you actually need to hire teams of professional programmers to write and maintain a browser.
- marcinzm 6y agoWeb standards are bloated because that's what users want: features. That's like saying "Firefox would be fine if there wasn't any well funded competition driving up the feature count of browsers to meet consumer demand."
- pjmlp 6y agoActually no, Web was perfectly fine with HTML 4.01/XHTML, but then some people at browser teams decided to declare war on native apps, HTML 5 was born and we are a couple of years before ChromeOS takes it all.
- jacob019 6y agoThat depends on what you consider fine. Modern decelopment is so much more productive, no way I could go back to the jquery days.
- pjmlp 6y agoInteractive documents, everything else should be a native app using Internet protocols.
- lights0123 6y agoI'm not complaining about well sandboxed multi-platform multi-arch webapps. Better than running an app in Wine because the publisher doesn't care about supporting Linux.
- pjmlp 6y agoNicely packed in Chrome, then don't complain about Google taking it all.
- numpad0 6y agoMaybe the whole web and browser game is not sustainable were it not for ads and bloat
- pjmlp 6y agoNative mobile apps are doing just fine, from monetary point of view.
- marcinzm 6y agoI take it you don't remember Flash and how popular it was.
- pjmlp 6y agoSure I do, that is why I am looking forward for WebAssembly to bring it back. https://www.leaningtech.com/pages/cheerpxflash.html https://www.leaningtech.com/pages/cheerpxflash.html
- wayneftw 6y agoI’d rather use and develop a PWA than a native app. So would all of my customers. iOS is the only thing holding them back. Usually we just wrap our web app in a native app for iOS and everybody is happy.
- pjmlp 6y agoChromeOS for the win, afterwards don't complain.
- wayneftw 6y agoCould you be a little less cryptic?
- pjmlp 6y agoGoogle is adding to Chrome all the missing APIs from ChromeOS, and folks keep using Electron instead of daemons alongside system browser or Web widgets. So from point of view of world browser market share, Safari is the only browser strong enough between what is left of Web and ChromeOS platform.
- wayneftw 6y agoI don't see how this helps or even relates to your point that "Web was perfectly fine with HTML 4.01/XHTML" Obviously it wasn't. Folks keep using Electron, ChromeOS, Chrome, Firefox, Edge and Safari and the HTML5 APIs that are common to all of them. If you took away everything that didn't exist in HTML 4.01/XHTML the entire world would grind to a screeching halt. Anyway, I don't see any problem with the Chrome taking on all the features of ChromeOS. Give me more features and higher quality for free, I'm not going to complain :) Also, Microsoft Edge has more users than Safari on platforms that I care about and they're the ones I'm jumping ship to if Google tries to take away uBlock Origin.
- pjmlp 6y agoWhen the world turns into a Chrome monoculture, there won't be Web any longer, job offers will turn into ChromeOS developer kind of ad.
- dageshi 6y agoI seem to recall Flash being developed well before HTML5 along with ActiveX components and Java applets? People have been trying to embed "native like apps" into web pages for a long time, they certainly weren't just satisfied with plain html pages.
- pessimizer 6y agoSo we're not talking about users anymore?
- dageshi 6y agoNone of those things would've lasted if the users didn't use the things created. Flash enabled video in webpages, games in webpages all things users flocked too and enjoyed.
- pjmlp 6y agoAs means for easy distribution of native apps, and designers not wanting to dealing with the crap of doing Web design, which still hasn't been fixed in 2020, despite all attempts to make Web apps take on native apps UI engines.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- pydry 6y agoUsers are losing representation in web standards meetings while Microsoft and Google are having more say.
- beagle3 6y agoI would be surprised if users asked for battery level reporting, and various other modern web standards. If Google introduced a “let website know I’m using phone on the toilet” service, I’m sure some people will claim in retrospect that users wanted it. I’m not saying that users know everything they want. But the claim that those apis are there because users want them is also false.
- SahAssar 6y agoThat's like saying linux shouldn't need developers because of POSIX.
- boomboomsubban 6y agoThese conspiracy theories ignore how from ~2013-2018 Yahoo was the main source of income for Firefox. How is Google convincing their competitor to help them in an antitrust case?
- SquareWheel 6y agoNot to mention they also pay Apple heaps of money to be the default search engine on iOS. Paying Mozilla for the same is perfectly logical.
- pessimizer 6y agoThat was a period during which Firefox had 2-4x the market share it has now. > How is Google convincing their competitor to help them in an antitrust case? I hear that they pay them 450 million dollars a year (out of 500 million dollars in revenue.) Are you looking for another reason?
- boomboomsubban 6y ago>That was a period during which Firefox had 2-4x the market share it has now. In Jan 2013, they had 22%, in Jan 2018 11%, in Oct 2019 (last on Wiki) they had 9%. Most of their drop happened under Yahoo, and Google did not change their fortune. >I hear that they pay them 450 million dollars a year (out of 500 million dollars in revenue.) Are you looking for another reason? Their competitor in that sentence was Yahoo, how is Google convincing Yahoo to spend around $500 million a year to help them?
- Hnrobert42 6y agoIt may be a rumor or speculation, but it is not a conspiracy theory. That is, it is not a group secretly conspiring to do something.
- boomboomsubban 6y agoYou were suggesting that Mozilla's deal with Google was secretly for the purpose of protecting itself from antitrust regulations. Two groups, secretly planning something.
- srtjstjsj 6y agoGoogle pays Of because FF generates more money for Google. It's as simple as that. There's no "market" for free web browsers.
- pessimizer 6y agoThere's zero chance that google being the default search engine in firefox is bringing in a half-billon dollars a year. The number of people who make the effort to seek out and install firefox, but don't care what search engine they use so use whatever the default is - has got to be somewhere in the triple digits, if not the double digits.
- throwaway45349 6y agoReally? It seems to me that you're not understanding the average user at all. Everyone who gets a new computer starts by opening Edge and typing "Chrome download" or less often "Firefox download". Normal people know how to install a browser and like Google _because_ it's the default everywhere.