8 ms·

I think "responsible" might be overstating it. But if BLM is not responsible, then it does poke holes in the ACAB and maybe even "Defund the Police" positions.

I think "responsible" might be overstating it. But if BLM is not responsible, then it does poke holes in the ACAB and maybe even "Defund the Police" positions. If protestors can dissociate from rogue actors, can police? If not, what's the clear difference beyond political tribalism?

ip26 6y ago
The trouble is the behaviors in the police seem to be fairly widespread, the perpetrators are protected, and reform is actively resisted. At that point it isn't a rouge actor. There has always been police violence, but what cell phones have done is reveal how widespread it may have always been, rejecting the rouge actor narrative.
- humanrebar 6y ago
  And how is the rogue actor narrative intact vis a vis the riots?
  - ip26 6y ago
    Leaders associated with the Black Lives Matter movement, including organizers of the protest rally, condemned the shooting -- Wikipedia Have we seen anything in particular that strongly suggests the Dallas shooting was not a rogue agent?
    - humanrebar 6y ago
      I specifically asked about the arson and other violence that has been going on all summer.
watwut 6y ago
I would expect the police to investigate and remove own bad actors. The police have the power to fire cops, to charge cops and imprison bad cops. I think that when police does that, the police should absolutely be able dissociate from those cops actions. On the other hand, if bad cops are not removed or are promoted, then police can not dissociate. I would expect some similar test to be applied to BLM. Is the person who shoot up people talked about positively and promoted as role model to BLM fans? Is that person instead pushed away? Imo, it is actions of leadership and generally of culture of the organization that determines whether dissociation from bad member is real or an not real. E.g. whether member is rogue or standard.

ip26 6y ago

The trouble is the behaviors in the police seem to be fairly widespread, the perpetrators are protected, and reform is actively resisted. At that point it isn't a rouge actor. There has always been police violence, but what cell phones have done is reveal how widespread it may have always been, rejecting the rouge actor narrative.

humanrebar 6y ago
And how is the rogue actor narrative intact vis a vis the riots?
- ip26 6y ago
  Leaders associated with the Black Lives Matter movement, including organizers of the protest rally, condemned the shooting -- Wikipedia Have we seen anything in particular that strongly suggests the Dallas shooting was not a rogue agent?
  - humanrebar 6y ago
    I specifically asked about the arson and other violence that has been going on all summer.

watwut 6y ago

I would expect the police to investigate and remove own bad actors. The police have the power to fire cops, to charge cops and imprison bad cops. I think that when police does that, the police should absolutely be able dissociate from those cops actions. On the other hand, if bad cops are not removed or are promoted, then police can not dissociate. I would expect some similar test to be applied to BLM. Is the person who shoot up people talked about positively and promoted as role model to BLM fans? Is that person instead pushed away? Imo, it is actions of leadership and generally of culture of the organization that determines whether dissociation from bad member is real or an not real. E.g. whether member is rogue or standard.