6 ms·

It’s likely a totally different product, the seeds just give a verified shipping history. They review the other product on their own account that “ordered” the

It’s likely a totally different product, the seeds just give a verified shipping history. They review the other product on their own account that “ordered” the seeds. The seeds are cheap and make it untraceable back to the original product.

Wowfunhappy 6y ago
So then how does banning the sale of seeds help? They’ll just switch to plastic doodads or some such.
- aik 6y ago
  The purpose of a ban isn’t to prevent fraud on Amazon, it’s to prevent unwanted seed from entering the country.
  - Chaulkalat 6y ago
    Gaming the rep system is a fault on Amazon's structure. If people in China are doing this without repercussions then what is stopping other people across the world from doing the same?
    - srtjstjsj 6y ago
      The special thing about China is that China's the only part of the world with a high volume export industry.
      - yorwba 6y ago
        In 2017, there were 24 other countries with an export volume at least 10% as large as China's: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_exports https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_exports If export volume is the only factor, we'd expect to see e.g. Polish companies sending seeds at about 10% of the volume coming from Chinese companies. One possible explanation is that EU exports frequently stay within the EU, so Polish companies would be more likely to try to get fake reviews from e.g. German customers.
        rhacker 6y ago
        Or you need enough chaos required in the other 90% to learn to do this technique.
        secondcoming 6y ago
        Mail from China is subsidised, not sure about Poland https://www.ft.com/content/3af8bfb8-ad3a-11e8-94bd-cba20d67390c https://www.ft.com/content/3af8bfb8-ad3a-11e8-94bd-cba20d673...
  - amf12 6y ago
    The purpose of a ban isn’t to prevent fraud on Amazon, it’s to prevent unwanted seed from entering the country. I don't see how it helps though. The product page for such scams doesn't show "seeds". It's an actual product, but the seller sends seeds. Banning the sale of seeds doesn't stop this.
    - booleandilemma 6y ago
      Can’t they just ban the sellers then?
      - DarthGhandi 6y ago
        > ban the sellers Something I find perplexing about this theory, they do have the shipping number right? Shouldn't it be trivial to find who is benefiting?
    - HenryBemis 6y ago
      Protect the country's ecosystem by a species that may 'invade' and take our existing flora [0],[1]. If 5% of the recipients want to do something "green" and plant these in a park/forest near them, without knowing the impact.. well 10-20 years from now you may have wiped out other more useful and necessary species. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasive_species https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasive_species [1]: https://www.fs.fed.us/wildflowers/invasives/index.shtml https://www.fs.fed.us/wildflowers/invasives/index.shtml
      - function_seven 6y ago
        Understood, but the question is still: how does this affect the actual trend of sellers gaming their metrics via seed shipments? Those seeds aren't actually being ordered. They're just a cheap, light item to ship to get a tracking number. It was already fraud before this rule. It's not like the scammy seller is going to obey this rule when they're already flouting the more fundamental ones.
    - aarongolliver 6y ago
      I think this comment has the right idea [0]. Amazon has two problems with seeds: 1. people doing what appears to be a weird scam that involves seeds being mailed across boarders 2. seed sellers on amazon have been flagrantly violate import controls for years. This new policy seems to be addressing #2, which is important to Amazon now more than ever because of the increased scrutiny caused by #1 making international news. I've personally bought seeds from Amazon which were declared as "bookmarks" to sneak past US customs. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24393395 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24393395
- bmlzootown 6y ago
  It likely won't help -- that's the issue.
- syshum 6y ago
  Amazon has a history of making PR statements about problems announcing policy changes that do nothing to solve the actual problem....

Wowfunhappy 6y ago

So then how does banning the sale of seeds help? They’ll just switch to plastic doodads or some such.

aik 6y ago
The purpose of a ban isn’t to prevent fraud on Amazon, it’s to prevent unwanted seed from entering the country.
- Chaulkalat 6y ago
  Gaming the rep system is a fault on Amazon's structure. If people in China are doing this without repercussions then what is stopping other people across the world from doing the same?
  - srtjstjsj 6y ago
    The special thing about China is that China's the only part of the world with a high volume export industry.
    - yorwba 6y ago
      In 2017, there were 24 other countries with an export volume at least 10% as large as China's: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_exports https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_exports If export volume is the only factor, we'd expect to see e.g. Polish companies sending seeds at about 10% of the volume coming from Chinese companies. One possible explanation is that EU exports frequently stay within the EU, so Polish companies would be more likely to try to get fake reviews from e.g. German customers.
      - rhacker 6y ago
        Or you need enough chaos required in the other 90% to learn to do this technique.
      - secondcoming 6y ago
        Mail from China is subsidised, not sure about Poland https://www.ft.com/content/3af8bfb8-ad3a-11e8-94bd-cba20d67390c https://www.ft.com/content/3af8bfb8-ad3a-11e8-94bd-cba20d673...
- amf12 6y ago
  The purpose of a ban isn’t to prevent fraud on Amazon, it’s to prevent unwanted seed from entering the country. I don't see how it helps though. The product page for such scams doesn't show "seeds". It's an actual product, but the seller sends seeds. Banning the sale of seeds doesn't stop this.
  - booleandilemma 6y ago
    Can’t they just ban the sellers then?
    - DarthGhandi 6y ago
      > ban the sellers Something I find perplexing about this theory, they do have the shipping number right? Shouldn't it be trivial to find who is benefiting?
  - HenryBemis 6y ago
    Protect the country's ecosystem by a species that may 'invade' and take our existing flora [0],[1]. If 5% of the recipients want to do something "green" and plant these in a park/forest near them, without knowing the impact.. well 10-20 years from now you may have wiped out other more useful and necessary species. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasive_species https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasive_species [1]: https://www.fs.fed.us/wildflowers/invasives/index.shtml https://www.fs.fed.us/wildflowers/invasives/index.shtml
    - function_seven 6y ago
      Understood, but the question is still: how does this affect the actual trend of sellers gaming their metrics via seed shipments? Those seeds aren't actually being ordered. They're just a cheap, light item to ship to get a tracking number. It was already fraud before this rule. It's not like the scammy seller is going to obey this rule when they're already flouting the more fundamental ones.
  - aarongolliver 6y ago
    I think this comment has the right idea [0]. Amazon has two problems with seeds: 1. people doing what appears to be a weird scam that involves seeds being mailed across boarders 2. seed sellers on amazon have been flagrantly violate import controls for years. This new policy seems to be addressing #2, which is important to Amazon now more than ever because of the increased scrutiny caused by #1 making international news. I've personally bought seeds from Amazon which were declared as "bookmarks" to sneak past US customs. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24393395 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24393395
bmlzootown 6y ago
It likely won't help -- that's the issue.
syshum 6y ago
Amazon has a history of making PR statements about problems announcing policy changes that do nothing to solve the actual problem....