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I’m confused about how this brushing scheme works. Why would anyone review some random seeds they got in the mail? How would they even know where to go to revie

I’m confused about how this brushing scheme works. Why would anyone review some random seeds they got in the mail? How would they even know where to go to review them? If they didn’t even make the order, it isn’t associated with their account, so they couldn’t even make a review. And finally, even if they did get lots of positive reviews, it would help them sell more...seeds?

tantalor 6y ago
The reviewer is the sender not recipient.
millisecond 6y ago
It’s likely a totally different product, the seeds just give a verified shipping history. They review the other product on their own account that “ordered” the seeds. The seeds are cheap and make it untraceable back to the original product.
- Wowfunhappy 6y ago
  So then how does banning the sale of seeds help? They’ll just switch to plastic doodads or some such.
  - aik 6y ago
    The purpose of a ban isn’t to prevent fraud on Amazon, it’s to prevent unwanted seed from entering the country.
    - Chaulkalat 6y ago
      Gaming the rep system is a fault on Amazon's structure. If people in China are doing this without repercussions then what is stopping other people across the world from doing the same?
      - srtjstjsj 6y ago
        The special thing about China is that China's the only part of the world with a high volume export industry.
        yorwba 6y ago
        In 2017, there were 24 other countries with an export volume at least 10% as large as China's: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_exports https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_exports If export volume is the only factor, we'd expect to see e.g. Polish companies sending seeds at about 10% of the volume coming from Chinese companies. One possible explanation is that EU exports frequently stay within the EU, so Polish companies would be more likely to try to get fake reviews from e.g. German customers.
        rhacker 6y ago
        Or you need enough chaos required in the other 90% to learn to do this technique.
        secondcoming 6y ago
        Mail from China is subsidised, not sure about Poland https://www.ft.com/content/3af8bfb8-ad3a-11e8-94bd-cba20d67390c https://www.ft.com/content/3af8bfb8-ad3a-11e8-94bd-cba20d673...
    - amf12 6y ago
      The purpose of a ban isn’t to prevent fraud on Amazon, it’s to prevent unwanted seed from entering the country. I don't see how it helps though. The product page for such scams doesn't show "seeds". It's an actual product, but the seller sends seeds. Banning the sale of seeds doesn't stop this.
      - booleandilemma 6y ago
        Can’t they just ban the sellers then?
        DarthGhandi 6y ago
        > ban the sellers Something I find perplexing about this theory, they do have the shipping number right? Shouldn't it be trivial to find who is benefiting?
      - HenryBemis 6y ago
        Protect the country's ecosystem by a species that may 'invade' and take our existing flora [0],[1]. If 5% of the recipients want to do something "green" and plant these in a park/forest near them, without knowing the impact.. well 10-20 years from now you may have wiped out other more useful and necessary species. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasive_species https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasive_species [1]: https://www.fs.fed.us/wildflowers/invasives/index.shtml https://www.fs.fed.us/wildflowers/invasives/index.shtml
        function_seven 6y ago
        Understood, but the question is still: how does this affect the actual trend of sellers gaming their metrics via seed shipments? Those seeds aren't actually being ordered. They're just a cheap, light item to ship to get a tracking number. It was already fraud before this rule. It's not like the scammy seller is going to obey this rule when they're already flouting the more fundamental ones.
      - aarongolliver 6y ago
        I think this comment has the right idea [0]. Amazon has two problems with seeds: 1. people doing what appears to be a weird scam that involves seeds being mailed across boarders 2. seed sellers on amazon have been flagrantly violate import controls for years. This new policy seems to be addressing #2, which is important to Amazon now more than ever because of the increased scrutiny caused by #1 making international news. I've personally bought seeds from Amazon which were declared as "bookmarks" to sneak past US customs. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24393395 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24393395
  - bmlzootown 6y ago
    It likely won't help -- that's the issue.
  - syshum 6y ago
    Amazon has a history of making PR statements about problems announcing policy changes that do nothing to solve the actual problem....
throwaway_pdp09 6y ago
But why seeds, wouldn't an empty envelope be even easier?
- myself248 6y ago
  I think the item needs to be fulfilled by Amazon's logistics in order for the "verified purchaser" bit of the scam to work. Seeds are the closest thing to an empty envelope, in terms of weight and cost to stock them, I'd assume. With seeds banned, I expect stickers will be the new decoy product. Alternate theory: The whole goal here was to make it harder for people to buy seeds and thus to garden. ;)
  - lostlogin 6y ago
    > Alternate theory: The whole goal here was to make it harder for people to buy seeds and thus to garden. ;) There is a long running joke on reddit that I see pop up in other places too - the joke being that gardening is illegal in New Zealand. https://www.reddit.com/r/newzealand/comments/2nem47/can_you_have_a_garden_in_new_zealand/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf https://www.reddit.com/r/newzealand/comments/2nem47/can_you_...
    - markdown 6y ago
      Please stop spreading the conspiracy theory that this is a joke, running or otherwise. Gardening is illegal in New Zealand.
34679 6y ago
1. Set up new Amazon store. 2. Buy list of US consumer data. 3. Set up Amazon customer accounts using data lists. 4. Order gizmos from your new store using your new customer accounts. 5. Send seeds instead of gizmos to real addresses around the US and provide Amazon with tracking. 6. Leave reviews for gizmos. 7. Watch store rise in ranking. Otherwise, they never get any positive reviews. They would all read "What the hell, I ordered a gizmo and got seeds."

tantalor 6y ago

The reviewer is the sender not recipient.

millisecond 6y ago

It’s likely a totally different product, the seeds just give a verified shipping history. They review the other product on their own account that “ordered” the seeds. The seeds are cheap and make it untraceable back to the original product.

Wowfunhappy 6y ago
So then how does banning the sale of seeds help? They’ll just switch to plastic doodads or some such.
- aik 6y ago
  The purpose of a ban isn’t to prevent fraud on Amazon, it’s to prevent unwanted seed from entering the country.
  - Chaulkalat 6y ago
    Gaming the rep system is a fault on Amazon's structure. If people in China are doing this without repercussions then what is stopping other people across the world from doing the same?
    - srtjstjsj 6y ago
      The special thing about China is that China's the only part of the world with a high volume export industry.
      - yorwba 6y ago
        In 2017, there were 24 other countries with an export volume at least 10% as large as China's: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_exports https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_exports If export volume is the only factor, we'd expect to see e.g. Polish companies sending seeds at about 10% of the volume coming from Chinese companies. One possible explanation is that EU exports frequently stay within the EU, so Polish companies would be more likely to try to get fake reviews from e.g. German customers.
        rhacker 6y ago
        Or you need enough chaos required in the other 90% to learn to do this technique.
        secondcoming 6y ago
        Mail from China is subsidised, not sure about Poland https://www.ft.com/content/3af8bfb8-ad3a-11e8-94bd-cba20d67390c https://www.ft.com/content/3af8bfb8-ad3a-11e8-94bd-cba20d673...
  - amf12 6y ago
    The purpose of a ban isn’t to prevent fraud on Amazon, it’s to prevent unwanted seed from entering the country. I don't see how it helps though. The product page for such scams doesn't show "seeds". It's an actual product, but the seller sends seeds. Banning the sale of seeds doesn't stop this.
    - booleandilemma 6y ago
      Can’t they just ban the sellers then?
      - DarthGhandi 6y ago
        > ban the sellers Something I find perplexing about this theory, they do have the shipping number right? Shouldn't it be trivial to find who is benefiting?
    - HenryBemis 6y ago
      Protect the country's ecosystem by a species that may 'invade' and take our existing flora [0],[1]. If 5% of the recipients want to do something "green" and plant these in a park/forest near them, without knowing the impact.. well 10-20 years from now you may have wiped out other more useful and necessary species. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasive_species https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasive_species [1]: https://www.fs.fed.us/wildflowers/invasives/index.shtml https://www.fs.fed.us/wildflowers/invasives/index.shtml
      - function_seven 6y ago
        Understood, but the question is still: how does this affect the actual trend of sellers gaming their metrics via seed shipments? Those seeds aren't actually being ordered. They're just a cheap, light item to ship to get a tracking number. It was already fraud before this rule. It's not like the scammy seller is going to obey this rule when they're already flouting the more fundamental ones.
    - aarongolliver 6y ago
      I think this comment has the right idea [0]. Amazon has two problems with seeds: 1. people doing what appears to be a weird scam that involves seeds being mailed across boarders 2. seed sellers on amazon have been flagrantly violate import controls for years. This new policy seems to be addressing #2, which is important to Amazon now more than ever because of the increased scrutiny caused by #1 making international news. I've personally bought seeds from Amazon which were declared as "bookmarks" to sneak past US customs. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24393395 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24393395
- bmlzootown 6y ago
  It likely won't help -- that's the issue.
- syshum 6y ago
  Amazon has a history of making PR statements about problems announcing policy changes that do nothing to solve the actual problem....

throwaway_pdp09 6y ago

But why seeds, wouldn't an empty envelope be even easier?

myself248 6y ago
I think the item needs to be fulfilled by Amazon's logistics in order for the "verified purchaser" bit of the scam to work. Seeds are the closest thing to an empty envelope, in terms of weight and cost to stock them, I'd assume. With seeds banned, I expect stickers will be the new decoy product. Alternate theory: The whole goal here was to make it harder for people to buy seeds and thus to garden. ;)
- lostlogin 6y ago
  > Alternate theory: The whole goal here was to make it harder for people to buy seeds and thus to garden. ;) There is a long running joke on reddit that I see pop up in other places too - the joke being that gardening is illegal in New Zealand. https://www.reddit.com/r/newzealand/comments/2nem47/can_you_have_a_garden_in_new_zealand/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf https://www.reddit.com/r/newzealand/comments/2nem47/can_you_...
  - markdown 6y ago
    Please stop spreading the conspiracy theory that this is a joke, running or otherwise. Gardening is illegal in New Zealand.

34679 6y ago

1. Set up new Amazon store. 2. Buy list of US consumer data. 3. Set up Amazon customer accounts using data lists. 4. Order gizmos from your new store using your new customer accounts. 5. Send seeds instead of gizmos to real addresses around the US and provide Amazon with tracking. 6. Leave reviews for gizmos. 7. Watch store rise in ranking. Otherwise, they never get any positive reviews. They would all read "What the hell, I ordered a gizmo and got seeds."