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Hopefully, this is a dysfunctional cultural norm we can change in America. I was excited by this statistic. If this becomes commonplace, it will carry less sti

Hopefully, this is a dysfunctional cultural norm we can change in America. I was excited by this statistic. If this becomes commonplace, it will carry less stigma, and hopefully happen more often where appropriate.

biql 6y ago
I am not sure it’s right to say that one way or another is dysfunctional. Each family is unique, people have different goals and preferences. There is no approach that would be right for everyone. But if the reasons for staying are mostly economical, it tells us that people are most likely doing this not because they enjoy it.
- woofie11 6y ago
  I'm sure the current approach in the US is dysfunctional. No one is saying people can't move out. All we're saying is that in most countries in the world, there is no stigma to not moving out. Some kids move out when they head out for college. Others move out when they get married and set up families. Others move stay together, and the grandparents help raise the kids. All of these should be okay. In the US, they're not. The reasons people are staying are economical, but the reasons most people want to move out are equally broken: image and social pressure. People living with parents in the US are perceived as losers. COVID19 exasperates this problem. Since the only people moving back in with parents are doing so due to economic reasons, the messaging that sends becomes stronger. I don't mind more than half of 18-29 year olds living with parents. That's only occasionally a problem. I do mind more than half of 18-29 years old living with the ENTIRELY ARTIFICIAL STIGMA of moving back in with parents. That's where the majority of the harm comes from. (No, I'm not arguing there aren't abusive / dysfunctional / etc. families. It's a common. It's just not the majority case.)
toastal 6y ago
Breaking down a stigma is one thing. Addressing housing prices and stagnant wages is another.
- woofie11 6y ago
  Both should happen.
closeparen 6y ago
Americans already make poor marriage decisions. Marrying people we have only interacted with under parental supervision would make that much, much worse.
- woofie11 6y ago
  Statistics prove you wrong! In countries where parents are involved in matchmaking (in other words, there is some outside, semi-objective force at work beyond hormones), marriages tend to be healthier and more stable. "Involved" isn't the same as "coerced," US stereotypes to the contrary.
  - closeparen 6y ago
    I expect this has more to do with expectations about compatibility and the strength of the relationship, rather than actually stronger relationships. It would be interesting to see data on subjective satisfaction, behavior, etc. that would separate out couples who are staying married out of duty vs. couples who actually like each other.
    - woofie11 6y ago
      Analyses I've seen say this has a lot to do with expectations, but in a rather different way than you described. To get things out-of-the-way: All the data I've seen suggests that couples in such countries DO actually appear to have stronger relationships and people in relationships DO appear to like each other more (at least a few years in). General analysis: US: Couples go into a relationship with the expectation of a Disney-style romance, with a soulmate, prince charming, and all that. Sometimes, that's even there up-front, but people change, and 10 or 20 years down the line, "soulmates" will usually be less compatible. At that point, people are hit with disappointment, conflict, and quite often, divorce. The expectation of potential divorce also gives less incentive to invest into the relationship too. That's especially true in times of crisis. If you're hit by a car, does your mate stick with you or move on? People need to hedge. PI: Couples go into a relationship with the expectation of initially being different, but of needing to the work to make it work, since they're in it for life. They're not disappointed when reality doesn't look like Disney, and usually they work together to make things work out. Couples tend to grow together over time, rather than grow apart, which is a healthier dynamic. In crisis situations, couples can count on each other to have their backs, since if things go badly for your partner, they go badly for you and vice-versa. Plus, you'll be counting on them in 50 years, so if you're not there for them now... Refs: Modern Romance by Aziz Ansari. But there is a more general aspect that parents can objectively evaluate compatibility and quality of your partner in a way that you can't. Again, it's worth noting there's a scale here. Do you inform your parents? Get advice? Ask permission? They pick, with your permission? With your advice? Entirely arranged? It's a spectrum.

biql 6y ago

I am not sure it’s right to say that one way or another is dysfunctional. Each family is unique, people have different goals and preferences. There is no approach that would be right for everyone. But if the reasons for staying are mostly economical, it tells us that people are most likely doing this not because they enjoy it.

woofie11 6y ago
I'm sure the current approach in the US is dysfunctional. No one is saying people can't move out. All we're saying is that in most countries in the world, there is no stigma to not moving out. Some kids move out when they head out for college. Others move out when they get married and set up families. Others move stay together, and the grandparents help raise the kids. All of these should be okay. In the US, they're not. The reasons people are staying are economical, but the reasons most people want to move out are equally broken: image and social pressure. People living with parents in the US are perceived as losers. COVID19 exasperates this problem. Since the only people moving back in with parents are doing so due to economic reasons, the messaging that sends becomes stronger. I don't mind more than half of 18-29 year olds living with parents. That's only occasionally a problem. I do mind more than half of 18-29 years old living with the ENTIRELY ARTIFICIAL STIGMA of moving back in with parents. That's where the majority of the harm comes from. (No, I'm not arguing there aren't abusive / dysfunctional / etc. families. It's a common. It's just not the majority case.)

toastal 6y ago

Breaking down a stigma is one thing. Addressing housing prices and stagnant wages is another.

woofie11 6y ago
Both should happen.

closeparen 6y ago

Americans already make poor marriage decisions. Marrying people we have only interacted with under parental supervision would make that much, much worse.

woofie11 6y ago
Statistics prove you wrong! In countries where parents are involved in matchmaking (in other words, there is some outside, semi-objective force at work beyond hormones), marriages tend to be healthier and more stable. "Involved" isn't the same as "coerced," US stereotypes to the contrary.
- closeparen 6y ago
  I expect this has more to do with expectations about compatibility and the strength of the relationship, rather than actually stronger relationships. It would be interesting to see data on subjective satisfaction, behavior, etc. that would separate out couples who are staying married out of duty vs. couples who actually like each other.
  - woofie11 6y ago
    Analyses I've seen say this has a lot to do with expectations, but in a rather different way than you described. To get things out-of-the-way: All the data I've seen suggests that couples in such countries DO actually appear to have stronger relationships and people in relationships DO appear to like each other more (at least a few years in). General analysis: US: Couples go into a relationship with the expectation of a Disney-style romance, with a soulmate, prince charming, and all that. Sometimes, that's even there up-front, but people change, and 10 or 20 years down the line, "soulmates" will usually be less compatible. At that point, people are hit with disappointment, conflict, and quite often, divorce. The expectation of potential divorce also gives less incentive to invest into the relationship too. That's especially true in times of crisis. If you're hit by a car, does your mate stick with you or move on? People need to hedge. PI: Couples go into a relationship with the expectation of initially being different, but of needing to the work to make it work, since they're in it for life. They're not disappointed when reality doesn't look like Disney, and usually they work together to make things work out. Couples tend to grow together over time, rather than grow apart, which is a healthier dynamic. In crisis situations, couples can count on each other to have their backs, since if things go badly for your partner, they go badly for you and vice-versa. Plus, you'll be counting on them in 50 years, so if you're not there for them now... Refs: Modern Romance by Aziz Ansari. But there is a more general aspect that parents can objectively evaluate compatibility and quality of your partner in a way that you can't. Again, it's worth noting there's a scale here. Do you inform your parents? Get advice? Ask permission? They pick, with your permission? With your advice? Entirely arranged? It's a spectrum.