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This comment reads half like PAP propaganda, and half simply uninformed. > the approach is not some libertarian utopia Well there’s no such thing as a real-wo

This comment reads half like PAP propaganda, and half simply uninformed. > the approach is not some libertarian utopia Well there’s no such thing as a real-world utopia. But Singapore, having the free-est market in the world is about as close as you could get. > no xenophobia Hmmmm... Chinese racism against pretty much everybody else has been a long standing issue in Singapore. Just go on any Singaporean job listing site and search for “must speak mandarin”. > basic human decency will be taken care of by government You can just look at the PAP’s website to see the mental gymnastics in this comment. Here are two of their four core values: > Meritocratic > A system that provides citizens with equal opportunities to progress, and for a person's contributions to be recognised and appreciated on the basis of merit. > Self-reliant > No one owes us a living. We will avoid creating the dependency syndrome a welfare state generates.

nine_zeros 6y ago
> Hmmmm... Chinese racism against pretty much everybody else has been a long standing issue in Singapore. Just go on any Singaporean job listing site and search for “must speak mandarin”. What are we talking about? Xenophobia or racism? Xenophobia is very low in SG. People expect to know foreigners and want foreigners to bring business or capital or skills. And since you are using PAP values to inform yourself, please read their pledge: "We, the members of the PAP, Pledge ourselves to build a strong United Party, to create a vibrant, just and equal society, through achieving excellence by all, so that every citizen, regardless of race, language or religion, can enjoy a full and happy life." This is from wikipedia: The PAP symbol (which is red and blue on white) stands for action inside interracial unity. PAP members at party rallies have sometimes worn a uniform of white shirts and white trousers which symbolises purity of the party's ideologies of the government. The party also reminded that once the uniform is sullied, it would be difficult to make clean again. > No one owes us a living. We will avoid creating the dependency syndrome a welfare state generates. Do you know what this means in the Asian lens? It means that they will collectively work to build their living because no other country will help them. It doesn't mean that they are going to leave their citizens homeless on the streets. It doesn't mean that they will let insurance companies shark out the lives out of citizens. They want to build a society where the basics are covered. About 80% of housing in Singapore is mixed socialized (not the same as handouts or welfare) but a collective system that does things with goals in mind https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_housing_in_Singapore https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_housing_in_Singapore Maybe it's really hard for people to even imagine how such a government could possibly work. Rest assured that the heavy hand of government takes care of basics so people can use their creativity to thrive on the free market built atop the safety.
- AmericanChopper 6y ago
  Your comments are so easily falsifiable, I hope nobody is taking them seriously. > Xenophobia is very low in SG. People expect to know foreigners and want foreigners to bring business or capital or skills. An incredibly consistent social problem Singapore has had is dealing with the fact that Singapore is essentially run by Han Chinese, for the benefit of Han Chinese. Despite the governments best rhetoric, ethnic minorities and foreigners are still widely discriminated against. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-28953147 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-28953147 > It means that they will collectively work to build their living because no other country will help them. I really find it hard to believe that you’re actually trying to say LKY was an advocate for collectivism. > "Cradle-to-grave welfarism blunted the ambition of many budding entrepreneurs. Worse, high personal taxes dampened the desire of many to achieve wealth and success." - LKY > "the folly of populist politicians who win elections playing the politics of equal rewards or egalitarianism: squeeze the successful to pay for the welfare of the poor, and end up with the equalisation of poverty" - LKY https://www.straitstimes.com/opinion/beware-the-welfarism-trap https://www.straitstimes.com/opinion/beware-the-welfarism-tr... > “ I departed from welfarism because it sapped a people's self-reliance and their desire to excel and succeed.” - LKY https://scroll.in/article/715572/singapores-lee-kuan-yew-on-why-he-departed-from-nehruvian-welfarism https://scroll.in/article/715572/singapores-lee-kuan-yew-on-... > It doesn't mean that they are going to leave their citizens homeless on the streets Except for when they do https://lkyspp.nus.edu.sg/gia/article/singapore's-hidden-homeless-insights-from-a-nationwide-street-count https://lkyspp.nus.edu.sg/gia/article/singapore's-hidden-hom... Also they’re quite happy for them to live in slums. https://sg.news.yahoo.com/blogs/singaporescene/hidden-slums-singapore-revealed-021739643.html https://sg.news.yahoo.com/blogs/singaporescene/hidden-slums-... > About 80% of housing in Singapore is mixed socialized The HDB scheme does in fact provide a lot of housing. But more specifically, what it does is provide affordable housing for the middle class professionals to buy. If you’re too poor to afford rent, you’re not going to be getting any benefit from the HDB. I’ve posted reliable sources for every claim I’ve made in this thread. You’re just posting incredibly liberal reinterpretations of reality.
  - nine_zeros 6y ago
    It appears that you have quite a few concepts completely mixed up. I'm just going to leave it at collectivism != welfare state and xenophobia != racism. I'll allow you to do research on how such societies work. Further, since you already color me liberal (which is incorrect), I can tell you are extremely biased in your perception of words. So feel free to take some classes in removing bias. It'll help.

nine_zeros 6y ago

> Hmmmm... Chinese racism against pretty much everybody else has been a long standing issue in Singapore. Just go on any Singaporean job listing site and search for “must speak mandarin”. What are we talking about? Xenophobia or racism? Xenophobia is very low in SG. People expect to know foreigners and want foreigners to bring business or capital or skills. And since you are using PAP values to inform yourself, please read their pledge: "We, the members of the PAP, Pledge ourselves to build a strong United Party, to create a vibrant, just and equal society, through achieving excellence by all, so that every citizen, regardless of race, language or religion, can enjoy a full and happy life." This is from wikipedia: The PAP symbol (which is red and blue on white) stands for action inside interracial unity. PAP members at party rallies have sometimes worn a uniform of white shirts and white trousers which symbolises purity of the party's ideologies of the government. The party also reminded that once the uniform is sullied, it would be difficult to make clean again. > No one owes us a living. We will avoid creating the dependency syndrome a welfare state generates. Do you know what this means in the Asian lens? It means that they will collectively work to build their living because no other country will help them. It doesn't mean that they are going to leave their citizens homeless on the streets. It doesn't mean that they will let insurance companies shark out the lives out of citizens. They want to build a society where the basics are covered. About 80% of housing in Singapore is mixed socialized (not the same as handouts or welfare) but a collective system that does things with goals in mind https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_housing_in_Singapore https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_housing_in_Singapore Maybe it's really hard for people to even imagine how such a government could possibly work. Rest assured that the heavy hand of government takes care of basics so people can use their creativity to thrive on the free market built atop the safety.

AmericanChopper 6y ago
Your comments are so easily falsifiable, I hope nobody is taking them seriously. > Xenophobia is very low in SG. People expect to know foreigners and want foreigners to bring business or capital or skills. An incredibly consistent social problem Singapore has had is dealing with the fact that Singapore is essentially run by Han Chinese, for the benefit of Han Chinese. Despite the governments best rhetoric, ethnic minorities and foreigners are still widely discriminated against. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-28953147 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-28953147 > It means that they will collectively work to build their living because no other country will help them. I really find it hard to believe that you’re actually trying to say LKY was an advocate for collectivism. > "Cradle-to-grave welfarism blunted the ambition of many budding entrepreneurs. Worse, high personal taxes dampened the desire of many to achieve wealth and success." - LKY > "the folly of populist politicians who win elections playing the politics of equal rewards or egalitarianism: squeeze the successful to pay for the welfare of the poor, and end up with the equalisation of poverty" - LKY https://www.straitstimes.com/opinion/beware-the-welfarism-trap https://www.straitstimes.com/opinion/beware-the-welfarism-tr... > “ I departed from welfarism because it sapped a people's self-reliance and their desire to excel and succeed.” - LKY https://scroll.in/article/715572/singapores-lee-kuan-yew-on-why-he-departed-from-nehruvian-welfarism https://scroll.in/article/715572/singapores-lee-kuan-yew-on-... > It doesn't mean that they are going to leave their citizens homeless on the streets Except for when they do https://lkyspp.nus.edu.sg/gia/article/singapore's-hidden-homeless-insights-from-a-nationwide-street-count https://lkyspp.nus.edu.sg/gia/article/singapore's-hidden-hom... Also they’re quite happy for them to live in slums. https://sg.news.yahoo.com/blogs/singaporescene/hidden-slums-singapore-revealed-021739643.html https://sg.news.yahoo.com/blogs/singaporescene/hidden-slums-... > About 80% of housing in Singapore is mixed socialized The HDB scheme does in fact provide a lot of housing. But more specifically, what it does is provide affordable housing for the middle class professionals to buy. If you’re too poor to afford rent, you’re not going to be getting any benefit from the HDB. I’ve posted reliable sources for every claim I’ve made in this thread. You’re just posting incredibly liberal reinterpretations of reality.
- nine_zeros 6y ago
  It appears that you have quite a few concepts completely mixed up. I'm just going to leave it at collectivism != welfare state and xenophobia != racism. I'll allow you to do research on how such societies work. Further, since you already color me liberal (which is incorrect), I can tell you are extremely biased in your perception of words. So feel free to take some classes in removing bias. It'll help.