5 ms·

Wouldn’t the breaker trip if you try to suck 45 amps through a 15 or 20 amp breaker?

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
kaetemi 6y ago
After a minute, I think. Depends on your breaker rating. 20 amps on a 15 amp breaker will take a while to trip. You will have wiring damage.
- namibj 6y ago
  Over here in Germany we call the breakers Leitungsschutzschalter, which translates to wiring protection switch. They're specifically sized to protect the wiring in an overload situation, both gradual overloads and short circuits. The main issue is actually with the slightly-less trigger-happy breakers (class D) needing a sufficiently low resistance on the output to ensure that the magnetic trigger is both reliably triggered if you short the outlet, yet reliably not triggered by the current spike allowed from it's class. They trigger between 10 and 20 times the nominal rating, and 16 A is the typical circuit choice here. Ensuring that you reliably hit 320 A through a long circuit isn't the easiest/cheapest thing.
  - watermelon0 6y ago
    Class B should be used for home use, and all domestic appliances should not trigger it. C/D are more appropriate for industrial use, where wiring and devices are designed beforehand, and people (ideally) won't just join together extension cords, and put multiple electric motors on it.
    - namibj 6y ago
      C is quite typical for new installations due to the abundance of SMPS's, which can easily cause issues after a power loss due to the combined inrush current. But yeah, D is indeed rare, and not typically found in domestic installations.
  - LargoLasskhyfv 6y ago
    Laymans simply say "Sicherung".
- esoterae 6y ago
  If that were true, wouldn't UL refuse to certify them?
  - bigiain 6y ago
    How many of the things with UL stamped/moulded into them that are available for sale on AliExpress do you suppose UL have ever even seen, never mind certified?
  - jasomill 6y ago
    And if quantity and type of receptacles are intended to be a form of overcurrent protection, wouldn't the UL refuse to certify a duplex 5-15R receptacle for use on a 15 A circuit? The fact that they do not leads (non-electrician) me to believe that outlet types differ to prevent unintentionally plugging devices into inappropriate circuits, not to prevent intentional abuse. The present example is just a band-aid fix for cases where lower-current devices are connected in through some intermediate wiring (UPS, extension cord, RV power system, etc.) with a plug consistent with its own, higher ampacity, and in this application, seems no more prone to abuse than a garden-variety 15 A duplex receptacle on a 15 A circuit.
- ses1984 6y ago
  Isn't the breaker supposed to protect the damage? If it doesn't, why not just make the breaker more sensitive?
- bleepblorp 6y ago
  15 amp Schneider QO breakers are rated to trip in between 3 and 9 seconds in response to a 45 amp load. They are rated to trip a 20 amp load within 50-300 seconds.[0] [0] https://schneider-electric.app.box.com/s/cgxddrh26v9tpd48d2k21m4zb8hwti0j/file/262864157253 https://schneider-electric.app.box.com/s/cgxddrh26v9tpd48d2k...
- labawi 6y ago
  Unless your wiring was damaged or sketchy, it will have no issue taking 20 amps for a while. Problem is a (small) chance it could in fact cause issues, possibly fires, possibly at a later date. People don't usually count consumption of their devices, so plugging in pretty much anything that the circuit breaker will take is a fairly common occurrence.
ThrustVectoring 6y ago
If everything is working correctly, yes. If things aren't working correctly, you get an electrical fire.
Lammy 6y ago
Depending on the age and quality of wiring there may be “hot spots” that can start a fire before there’s enough draw to trip the breaker. Old residential aluminum wiring is terribly dangerous for this reason. Corroded wire splices can do it too. That’s why I always solder my romex junctions! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aluminum_building_wiring#Older_homes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aluminum_building_wiring#Older...
- asddubs 6y ago
  soldering electrical wiring is really not a good idea. just use wagos
  - josuepeq 6y ago
    Agree, Wago’s Lever Nuts especially are a game changer. Those DIYers who reject the “licensed electrician and I need a permit” model could benefit most from them - they’re almost foolproof. Instead they’re expensive, hard to find as Lowe’s/Home Depot don’t sell them, and not too many average people are familiar with them. I won’t ever buy plain wire nuts again unless it’s to cap a single wire.
    - LargoLasskhyfv 6y ago
      >> ...expensive What do you expect? It's German engineering :-)
- hinkley 6y ago
  Relative lost his whole house to old wiring in the attic. Staples, aging plastic, and thermal cycling. Roof was engulfed before the smoke alarms went off.
- LargoLasskhyfv 6y ago
  Soldering those is forbidden here nowadays. Has to be crimped with a metal jacket around the ends.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

After a minute, I think. Depends on your breaker rating. 20 amps on a 15 amp breaker will take a while to trip. You will have wiring damage.

namibj 6y ago
Over here in Germany we call the breakers Leitungsschutzschalter, which translates to wiring protection switch. They're specifically sized to protect the wiring in an overload situation, both gradual overloads and short circuits. The main issue is actually with the slightly-less trigger-happy breakers (class D) needing a sufficiently low resistance on the output to ensure that the magnetic trigger is both reliably triggered if you short the outlet, yet reliably not triggered by the current spike allowed from it's class. They trigger between 10 and 20 times the nominal rating, and 16 A is the typical circuit choice here. Ensuring that you reliably hit 320 A through a long circuit isn't the easiest/cheapest thing.
- watermelon0 6y ago
  Class B should be used for home use, and all domestic appliances should not trigger it. C/D are more appropriate for industrial use, where wiring and devices are designed beforehand, and people (ideally) won't just join together extension cords, and put multiple electric motors on it.
  - namibj 6y ago
    C is quite typical for new installations due to the abundance of SMPS's, which can easily cause issues after a power loss due to the combined inrush current. But yeah, D is indeed rare, and not typically found in domestic installations.
- LargoLasskhyfv 6y ago
  Laymans simply say "Sicherung".
esoterae 6y ago
If that were true, wouldn't UL refuse to certify them?
- bigiain 6y ago
  How many of the things with UL stamped/moulded into them that are available for sale on AliExpress do you suppose UL have ever even seen, never mind certified?
- jasomill 6y ago
  And if quantity and type of receptacles are intended to be a form of overcurrent protection, wouldn't the UL refuse to certify a duplex 5-15R receptacle for use on a 15 A circuit? The fact that they do not leads (non-electrician) me to believe that outlet types differ to prevent unintentionally plugging devices into inappropriate circuits, not to prevent intentional abuse. The present example is just a band-aid fix for cases where lower-current devices are connected in through some intermediate wiring (UPS, extension cord, RV power system, etc.) with a plug consistent with its own, higher ampacity, and in this application, seems no more prone to abuse than a garden-variety 15 A duplex receptacle on a 15 A circuit.
ses1984 6y ago
Isn't the breaker supposed to protect the damage? If it doesn't, why not just make the breaker more sensitive?
bleepblorp 6y ago
15 amp Schneider QO breakers are rated to trip in between 3 and 9 seconds in response to a 45 amp load. They are rated to trip a 20 amp load within 50-300 seconds.[0] [0] https://schneider-electric.app.box.com/s/cgxddrh26v9tpd48d2k21m4zb8hwti0j/file/262864157253 https://schneider-electric.app.box.com/s/cgxddrh26v9tpd48d2k...
labawi 6y ago
Unless your wiring was damaged or sketchy, it will have no issue taking 20 amps for a while. Problem is a (small) chance it could in fact cause issues, possibly fires, possibly at a later date. People don't usually count consumption of their devices, so plugging in pretty much anything that the circuit breaker will take is a fairly common occurrence.

ThrustVectoring 6y ago

If everything is working correctly, yes. If things aren't working correctly, you get an electrical fire.

Lammy 6y ago

Depending on the age and quality of wiring there may be “hot spots” that can start a fire before there’s enough draw to trip the breaker. Old residential aluminum wiring is terribly dangerous for this reason. Corroded wire splices can do it too. That’s why I always solder my romex junctions! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aluminum_building_wiring#Older_homes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aluminum_building_wiring#Older...

asddubs 6y ago
soldering electrical wiring is really not a good idea. just use wagos
- josuepeq 6y ago
  Agree, Wago’s Lever Nuts especially are a game changer. Those DIYers who reject the “licensed electrician and I need a permit” model could benefit most from them - they’re almost foolproof. Instead they’re expensive, hard to find as Lowe’s/Home Depot don’t sell them, and not too many average people are familiar with them. I won’t ever buy plain wire nuts again unless it’s to cap a single wire.
  - LargoLasskhyfv 6y ago
    >> ...expensive What do you expect? It's German engineering :-)
hinkley 6y ago
Relative lost his whole house to old wiring in the attic. Staples, aging plastic, and thermal cycling. Roof was engulfed before the smoke alarms went off.
LargoLasskhyfv 6y ago
Soldering those is forbidden here nowadays. Has to be crimped with a metal jacket around the ends.