4 ms·

tl;dr according to the author: - MS office compatibility - tabs - cloud support - ribbon UI Personally, none of those are even remotely relevant (and MSO c

tl;dr according to the author: - MS office compatibility - tabs - cloud support - ribbon UI Personally, none of those are even remotely relevant (and MSO compatibility is a given, which suite doesn't support docx etc these days?). The only times I still reach for MS Office is when I need its million times faster speed compared to OpenOffice and friends (libre office, etc), for things like "sorting 20,000 lines of CSV in Excel using multiple column constraints because I need the first 100 entries after sorting" or "writing out some maths that doesn't justify using full-blown XeLaTeX", so... this just reads like a blog-shaped ad. I'm curious to learn how much the author got paid to post this, given how little what-I-use-it-for-information there is in this post.

unnouinceput 6y ago
You know, if you want to fast sort 20k lines, then Excel is the wrong tool. Access is better, and with their DOM linking model you can simply define once, use multiple times as you delete/edit/insert lines into that Excel/Word. Click of a button in Access and zbang! those lines are sorted instantly. For single user Access is still fastest database to use locally. Nothing beats it! Well, until you need 50 millions records, at which point you definitely switch to PostgreSQL as none of Microsoft tools beats that beast when it comes to large data (MSSQL included!).
- TheRealPomax 6y ago
  It really isn't. Access is great for _persistent_ data, but if I have a .csv file and I just need it quickly sorted so I can grab the top 100 entries after multi-column sorting, Access is about as useful as SQL: pointless for what I need.
  - unnouinceput 6y ago
    Then you definitely don't know to use it to it's usefulness. But that's OK, as long as Excel fits you needs. You do know, just like in Excel, you can simply right click on column data and select order, yes? Or filter if you want. To your point, if I have a .csv file I can simply copy/paste it to Access in a new table, and just next/next through the wizard that will pop-up. Now do a test, get that .csv file, with 20k rows, and paste it in Excel 50 times, so you'll have 1M records in a table. Let me know in how much time Excel vs. Access will order it.
    - tracker1 6y ago
      That's my quick and dirty shortcut to get one-off csv imported into a database (even remote rdbms)... Usually paste into a new database table, then query/insert and drop said table when done. That or I'll write a one-off node script.
- tracker1 6y ago
  While I do like Access for some use cases, and Access provides a decent UI option as a quick and dirty for anything with an odbc driver (even csv), It's not great or the fastest option. For that matter, you can use SQLite about anywhere you might otherwise use JET, .Net Core now has a driver in the box, and you can use it anywhere .Net Core works.
chris_wot 6y ago
I’m not surprised if you are using OpenOffice. Try using a LibreOffice.
- avhon1 6y ago
  I believe TheRealPomax was thinking of LibreOffice, and other OO derivatives, when they said "OpenOffice and friends".
  - chris_wot 6y ago
    At this point, the two projects are totally different. I know I wouldn’t use OpenOffice.
- JoshTriplett 6y ago
  Exactly. "OpenOffice" is a dead project that hasn't seen any serious development for nearly a decade. LibreOffice is the actively developed successor. See https://lwn.net/Articles/699755/ https://lwn.net/Articles/699755/ and https://lwn.net/Articles/637735/ https://lwn.net/Articles/637735/ for details. OpenOffice.org was the first major FOSS project I ever contributed to, and it makes me sad to see that that trademark currently belongs to a dead project.
- TheRealPomax 6y ago
  Let me know when Libre Office's Calc can sort 20,000 rows with multiple column constraints in less than half a second. Because last time I tried, it took over a minute, which is unacceptable for spreadsheet software.
  - chris_wot 6y ago
    Do you have a test document?
egypturnash 6y ago
You forgot - runs natively on the OS the author is using, unlike MS Office which only runs on Windows and Macs
- TheRealPomax 6y ago
  No, I didn't. The article is about how it's better than OpenOffice and friends. And all of those are cross-platform software. In the same way they're all open source, so listing that as somehow a reason it's better is just nonsense.
swiley 6y ago
Wait a minute Libre office has cloud support and ms office compatibility. What is this?
- em-bee 6y ago
  ms office compatibility still fails in some cases. but to get to the truth we need to collect testcases and check if onlyoffice actually does a better job
II2II 6y ago
I suspect the author was thinking of a more typical use case. Once you get into the more esoteric features of Microsoft Office, I doubt that any of the competition can keep up. Even if they matched it feature for feature, those features would have to be implemented in compatible ways.
- TheRealPomax 6y ago
  If so, their post sure as hell doesn't make that case. I'm 99% certain it's just a sponsored ad-as-blog-post.
  - II2II 6y ago
    Sometimes an overly enthusiastic post is just an overly enthusiastic post. While I acknowledge that it is good to have a bit of cynicism, it is probably better directed at the content than the motivation since motivations are far more difficult to determine.
linker3000 6y ago
I'm persevering with LibreOffice, but it does have its compatibility quirks. A few days back I was sent a .docx to proof and suggest changes. The requirement was to highlight added words in green and highlight queries in yellow. I used the latest version 7 of LibreOffice. When the doc went back to the creator - using Office 365 - they called to say that they could not select and remove the highlighting and had to delete and retype the coloured words.
- resoluteteeth 6y ago
  One quirk of Microsoft Word is that for historical reasons it has highlighting, which only allows a small number of specific colors, but also equivalent functionality in background shading for characters which allows arbitrary colors. IIRC, because this doesn't really make sense, libreoffice just has highlighting which allows arbitrary colors, but it can be confusing because it may by necessity become background shading when you export as a word file. Unfortunately, the UI for background shading is absolutely terrible in Word (there are different types of border/shading settings and you have to open the menu but then select the correct type to even see the current settings that are being applied) so people who don't know about it will be unlikely to figure out where it is or how to change it.
- petepete 6y ago
  Blaming an application for not having perfectly reverse-engineered a convoluted, confusing and incomplete spec is harsh. I admit it's frustrating but maybe the sender should be using a standard format.
  - codygman 6y ago
    .docx is the standard format per the people that are probably your bosses wondering why you're making trouble not using the standard microsoft word. Unless one can supplant the current ".docx" is standard across industry I don't see how your expect others to use a different format. Personally, I wish odf were the default along with libreoffice.
    - 6y ago

unnouinceput 6y ago

You know, if you want to fast sort 20k lines, then Excel is the wrong tool. Access is better, and with their DOM linking model you can simply define once, use multiple times as you delete/edit/insert lines into that Excel/Word. Click of a button in Access and zbang! those lines are sorted instantly. For single user Access is still fastest database to use locally. Nothing beats it! Well, until you need 50 millions records, at which point you definitely switch to PostgreSQL as none of Microsoft tools beats that beast when it comes to large data (MSSQL included!).

TheRealPomax 6y ago
It really isn't. Access is great for _persistent_ data, but if I have a .csv file and I just need it quickly sorted so I can grab the top 100 entries after multi-column sorting, Access is about as useful as SQL: pointless for what I need.
- unnouinceput 6y ago
  Then you definitely don't know to use it to it's usefulness. But that's OK, as long as Excel fits you needs. You do know, just like in Excel, you can simply right click on column data and select order, yes? Or filter if you want. To your point, if I have a .csv file I can simply copy/paste it to Access in a new table, and just next/next through the wizard that will pop-up. Now do a test, get that .csv file, with 20k rows, and paste it in Excel 50 times, so you'll have 1M records in a table. Let me know in how much time Excel vs. Access will order it.
  - tracker1 6y ago
    That's my quick and dirty shortcut to get one-off csv imported into a database (even remote rdbms)... Usually paste into a new database table, then query/insert and drop said table when done. That or I'll write a one-off node script.
tracker1 6y ago
While I do like Access for some use cases, and Access provides a decent UI option as a quick and dirty for anything with an odbc driver (even csv), It's not great or the fastest option. For that matter, you can use SQLite about anywhere you might otherwise use JET, .Net Core now has a driver in the box, and you can use it anywhere .Net Core works.

chris_wot 6y ago

I’m not surprised if you are using OpenOffice. Try using a LibreOffice.

avhon1 6y ago
I believe TheRealPomax was thinking of LibreOffice, and other OO derivatives, when they said "OpenOffice and friends".
- chris_wot 6y ago
  At this point, the two projects are totally different. I know I wouldn’t use OpenOffice.
JoshTriplett 6y ago
Exactly. "OpenOffice" is a dead project that hasn't seen any serious development for nearly a decade. LibreOffice is the actively developed successor. See https://lwn.net/Articles/699755/ https://lwn.net/Articles/699755/ and https://lwn.net/Articles/637735/ https://lwn.net/Articles/637735/ for details. OpenOffice.org was the first major FOSS project I ever contributed to, and it makes me sad to see that that trademark currently belongs to a dead project.
TheRealPomax 6y ago
Let me know when Libre Office's Calc can sort 20,000 rows with multiple column constraints in less than half a second. Because last time I tried, it took over a minute, which is unacceptable for spreadsheet software.
- chris_wot 6y ago
  Do you have a test document?

egypturnash 6y ago

You forgot - runs natively on the OS the author is using, unlike MS Office which only runs on Windows and Macs

TheRealPomax 6y ago
No, I didn't. The article is about how it's better than OpenOffice and friends. And all of those are cross-platform software. In the same way they're all open source, so listing that as somehow a reason it's better is just nonsense.

swiley 6y ago

Wait a minute Libre office has cloud support and ms office compatibility. What is this?

em-bee 6y ago
ms office compatibility still fails in some cases. but to get to the truth we need to collect testcases and check if onlyoffice actually does a better job

II2II 6y ago

I suspect the author was thinking of a more typical use case. Once you get into the more esoteric features of Microsoft Office, I doubt that any of the competition can keep up. Even if they matched it feature for feature, those features would have to be implemented in compatible ways.

TheRealPomax 6y ago
If so, their post sure as hell doesn't make that case. I'm 99% certain it's just a sponsored ad-as-blog-post.
- II2II 6y ago
  Sometimes an overly enthusiastic post is just an overly enthusiastic post. While I acknowledge that it is good to have a bit of cynicism, it is probably better directed at the content than the motivation since motivations are far more difficult to determine.

linker3000 6y ago

I'm persevering with LibreOffice, but it does have its compatibility quirks. A few days back I was sent a .docx to proof and suggest changes. The requirement was to highlight added words in green and highlight queries in yellow. I used the latest version 7 of LibreOffice. When the doc went back to the creator - using Office 365 - they called to say that they could not select and remove the highlighting and had to delete and retype the coloured words.

resoluteteeth 6y ago
One quirk of Microsoft Word is that for historical reasons it has highlighting, which only allows a small number of specific colors, but also equivalent functionality in background shading for characters which allows arbitrary colors. IIRC, because this doesn't really make sense, libreoffice just has highlighting which allows arbitrary colors, but it can be confusing because it may by necessity become background shading when you export as a word file. Unfortunately, the UI for background shading is absolutely terrible in Word (there are different types of border/shading settings and you have to open the menu but then select the correct type to even see the current settings that are being applied) so people who don't know about it will be unlikely to figure out where it is or how to change it.
petepete 6y ago
Blaming an application for not having perfectly reverse-engineered a convoluted, confusing and incomplete spec is harsh. I admit it's frustrating but maybe the sender should be using a standard format.
- codygman 6y ago
  .docx is the standard format per the people that are probably your bosses wondering why you're making trouble not using the standard microsoft word. Unless one can supplant the current ".docx" is standard across industry I don't see how your expect others to use a different format. Personally, I wish odf were the default along with libreoffice.
  - 6y ago