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So because there are more unemployed single or married men who have less education than single women with education the wage gap is closed? This is nonsensical.

by cjoh 16y ago

So because there are more unemployed single or married men who have less education than single women with education the wage gap is closed? This is nonsensical. The most laughable part of this is when they just throw out that single women make more than males. You might as well say "The cost of oranges and apples are relatively different if you compare orange juice to apple seeds" Why'd they go with single women? Because married women, specifically those with kids, make a lot less money. I'd imagine if they only used black men without a high school education, there'd be an even greater pro-male wage gap. Here's some good data to illustrate how complicated the wage gap and employment gap issues are and why overly simplistic stories like that are, well, embarrassing: http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2009/11/06/business/economy/unemployment-lines.html http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2009/11/06/business/econo...

vehementi 16y ago
He makes neither of the two assertions you attribute to him. He's saying the wage gap is closed because for single males vs single females, women make the same (or more). He doesn't compare single females to all males. The "wage gap" claim is that men and women make different money for the same jobs. It doesn't have anything to do with women with kids obviously making less money overall due to that affecting their career. Not saying I agree with the article or think it pulls in the whole picture, but you are completely misrepresenting a lot of things.
- cjoh 16y ago
  The way I read it, SHE (Ms. Lukas, a woman and the author of the post) certainly is. See: "Men have been hit harder by this recession because they tend to work in fields like construction, manufacturing and trucking, which are disproportionately affected by bad economic conditions. Women cluster in more insulated occupations, such as teaching, health care and service industries." (comparing without demographic isolation) "The Department of Labor's Time Use survey shows that full-time working women spend an average of 8.01 hours per day on the job, compared to 8.75 hours for full-time working men. One would expect that someone who works 9% more would also earn more. This one fact alone accounts for more than a third of the wage gap." (comparing with demographic isolation, with no mention of wage differences between men with children and women with children) Again, my point is that saying "men and women make X money for Y jobs" doesn't make much sense, and doesn't illustrate whether or not the wage gap is closed or not and more importantly, any subset of data can be compared with another subset of data to illustrate that it is or is not closed. The author here uses really simplistic arguments to make a case that isn't true. The fact is, that if you leave out women with children and women who've only negotiated their salary once, then the wage gap doesn't look so bad. But throw in their first jobs and women with children, and it's significant.
  - vehementi 16y ago
    Sorry I even checked and still misread the "Ms." But isn't "men and women make X money for Y jobs" the only legitimate way to look at the wage gap? What other comparison makes sense at all? If not the above, then what wage gap are people complaining about? Why bring women with children up? Is it not expected (in the statistical sense, not in the duty sense) that women with children will tend to have sacrificed some amount of career? Are you saying that a woman software developer makes more money for the same role as a woman software developer with a child?
    - yummyfajitas 16y ago
      What other comparison makes sense at all? I don't endorse it, but comparable worth is popular. http://www.scu.edu/ethics/publications/iie/v3n2/comparable.html http://www.scu.edu/ethics/publications/iie/v3n2/comparable.h...

by cjoh 16y ago

vehementi 16y ago

He makes neither of the two assertions you attribute to him. He's saying the wage gap is closed because for single males vs single females, women make the same (or more). He doesn't compare single females to all males. The "wage gap" claim is that men and women make different money for the same jobs. It doesn't have anything to do with women with kids obviously making less money overall due to that affecting their career. Not saying I agree with the article or think it pulls in the whole picture, but you are completely misrepresenting a lot of things.

cjoh 16y ago
The way I read it, SHE (Ms. Lukas, a woman and the author of the post) certainly is. See: "Men have been hit harder by this recession because they tend to work in fields like construction, manufacturing and trucking, which are disproportionately affected by bad economic conditions. Women cluster in more insulated occupations, such as teaching, health care and service industries." (comparing without demographic isolation) "The Department of Labor's Time Use survey shows that full-time working women spend an average of 8.01 hours per day on the job, compared to 8.75 hours for full-time working men. One would expect that someone who works 9% more would also earn more. This one fact alone accounts for more than a third of the wage gap." (comparing with demographic isolation, with no mention of wage differences between men with children and women with children) Again, my point is that saying "men and women make X money for Y jobs" doesn't make much sense, and doesn't illustrate whether or not the wage gap is closed or not and more importantly, any subset of data can be compared with another subset of data to illustrate that it is or is not closed. The author here uses really simplistic arguments to make a case that isn't true. The fact is, that if you leave out women with children and women who've only negotiated their salary once, then the wage gap doesn't look so bad. But throw in their first jobs and women with children, and it's significant.
- vehementi 16y ago
  Sorry I even checked and still misread the "Ms." But isn't "men and women make X money for Y jobs" the only legitimate way to look at the wage gap? What other comparison makes sense at all? If not the above, then what wage gap are people complaining about? Why bring women with children up? Is it not expected (in the statistical sense, not in the duty sense) that women with children will tend to have sacrificed some amount of career? Are you saying that a woman software developer makes more money for the same role as a woman software developer with a child?
  - yummyfajitas 16y ago
    What other comparison makes sense at all? I don't endorse it, but comparable worth is popular. http://www.scu.edu/ethics/publications/iie/v3n2/comparable.html http://www.scu.edu/ethics/publications/iie/v3n2/comparable.h...