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It's not like there are two discrete camps who are either for or against everything modern psychiatry has to offer. Equating it to the anti-vax movememt is dis

It's not like there are two discrete camps who are either for or against everything modern psychiatry has to offer. Equating it to the anti-vax movememt is disingenuous. Yes, if you need help, seek it. Also don't be afraid to see several psychiatrists just like you might see several doctors. Feel free to question their decisions like you might question a normal doctor. There are rarely perfect cures for mental illnesses. Be wary of anecdotal evidence online. Be wary of the side effects of both prescription medicines and herbal/nutritional supplements. Suicide is never the best option. Be honest with your medical providers about how the medications are working for you and don't be content with poor outcomes. It may take a while but you will probably find some combination that works for you. Like any medical treatment, the best cure may not be perfect and you may have to accept some undesirable side effects though. Just keep trying and have as much patience as you can muster.

KorfmannArno 6y ago
But how would a depressed individual (I'm talking extreme depression) be able to consult multiple doctors and try different medications which also only become effective after several weeks? This sounds like a task a healthy individual could carry out, but a depressed person is suffering every minute, they need immediate relief. I saw that esketamine got approved both in the US and EU, but it's only prescribed after 2 classical medications failed. How is a person suffering daily expected to wait so long? Of course there will be many suicides still.
- 01100011 6y ago
  I'm bipolar with a touch of OCD so I know the struggle. I've managed to get by with illicit substances and nicotine at times but I know that's not a real option for most people. When I finally decided to seek help, the first psychiatrist I saw was nuttier than I was though. If someone is extremely depressed, they probably aren't even going to seek out help. It's up to the people around them, if there are any, to try to get them the best care. What I was getting at with my comment isn't so much for the emergency situation as it is for the long term. You have to start somewhere, but then continue to push for better. Honestly, even healthy folks have issues with fighting for the best care though. The real solution, if there is one, for mental health is to have healthy, intact families, communities, police, social workers, medical systems and governments all coordinating, but now that looks like a pipe dream so we do what we can.
- bananamerica 6y ago
  Many people live with spouses, friends, or relatives that can help with that. And some actually can take their medication as prescribed. I (bipolar disorder) certainly could and can. It’s a very low effort treatment. Just take the pills.
PragmaticPulp 6y ago
> It's not like there are two discrete camps who are either for or against everything modern psychiatry has to offer. Equating it to the anti-vax movememt is disingenuous. I was responding to the parent comment, which claimed (falsely) that scientific consensus showed that psychiatry does not work at all. Claims like that are indeed equivalent to anti-vax movements. I’m not suggesting that psychiatry is without nuance or debated topics, but the parent comment was spreading false and potentially damaging information. As always, please consult with a medical professional, not random internet comments dismissing entire fields of medicine as a hoax.
- 0x2a 6y ago
  > I was responding to the parent comment, which claimed (falsely) that scientific consensus showed that psychiatry does not work at all. Claims like that are indeed equivalent to anti-vax movements. You didn't respond specifically to the claim. It was just used to dismiss all caution in dealing with psychiatric medication as though it has the degree of certainty and understanding as vaccines.
- 01100011 6y ago
  OP said "It's clear scientifically that no medication heals depression or addiction and yet these pills are happily prescribed in psychiatries." That is a far fetched claim regarding psychiatric medications(not psychiatry in general) but it is not without merit. I chose to forgo most medications because of the side effects. I have a friend with a similar set of problems and he's on something like 7 different meds and they're still changing after years of working with his doctor. They have kept him alive and yet he is worse off every time I see him. There are also many, many people who are helped by psychiatric medications. OP is wrong that there is no evidence for effectiveness of any medications but there is still some debate over the effectiveness of some classes of drugs(SSRIs for instance, last time I looked). We will have to agree to disagree on the appropriateness of likening criticism of psychiatric medications to the anti-vax movement.
  - PragmaticPulp 6y ago
    > OP is wrong that there is no evidence for effectiveness of any medications but there is still some debate over the effectiveness of some classes of drugs(SSRIs for instance, last time I looked). Strongly the agree that the OP is wrong. I’m not sure why it’s so contentious. As for SSRIs: The famous paper questioning their effectiveness has been widely panned for coming to misleading conclusions. If you read the paper, even their conclusions show SSRIs outperforming placebo. The authors used a cherry-picked analysis technique (“effect size”) to argue that the effect size was not as large as they’d like, despite showing that the effective size of SSRIs was in the direction of showing superiority to placebo. It’s also difficult to evaluate these topics without fully understanding the science. SSRIs aren’t evaluates in isolation, they’re evaluated in relation to placebo. The problem is that placebo shows remarkable efficacy in some patients. This doesn’t mean that SSRIs are placebo (they still separate from placebo) but it does require careful analysis of the data. For example, SSRIs are significantly more effective than placebo in patients with severe depression, but they separate less in patients with mild depression. None of this means they are ineffective, but the data is often misconstrued as such by those with an anti-medicine agenda. I’m glad you’ve found a solution that works for you, but please refrain from projecting your own medication choices on to other vulnerable people online based on a cursory understanding of the research. > There are also many, many people who are helped by psychiatric medications. Strongly agree. Everyone should defer to medical professionals rather than HN comments for treatment decisions. It’s very unfortunate to see so many people choosing to avoid treatment for years out of unfounded fears of medications they’ve read online, just as it’s sad to see people avoiding vaccinations due to something they read on Facebook.
DanBC 6y ago
In this answer you show that you don't know what is meant by the term "anti-psychiatry".

KorfmannArno 6y ago

But how would a depressed individual (I'm talking extreme depression) be able to consult multiple doctors and try different medications which also only become effective after several weeks? This sounds like a task a healthy individual could carry out, but a depressed person is suffering every minute, they need immediate relief. I saw that esketamine got approved both in the US and EU, but it's only prescribed after 2 classical medications failed. How is a person suffering daily expected to wait so long? Of course there will be many suicides still.

01100011 6y ago
I'm bipolar with a touch of OCD so I know the struggle. I've managed to get by with illicit substances and nicotine at times but I know that's not a real option for most people. When I finally decided to seek help, the first psychiatrist I saw was nuttier than I was though. If someone is extremely depressed, they probably aren't even going to seek out help. It's up to the people around them, if there are any, to try to get them the best care. What I was getting at with my comment isn't so much for the emergency situation as it is for the long term. You have to start somewhere, but then continue to push for better. Honestly, even healthy folks have issues with fighting for the best care though. The real solution, if there is one, for mental health is to have healthy, intact families, communities, police, social workers, medical systems and governments all coordinating, but now that looks like a pipe dream so we do what we can.
bananamerica 6y ago
Many people live with spouses, friends, or relatives that can help with that. And some actually can take their medication as prescribed. I (bipolar disorder) certainly could and can. It’s a very low effort treatment. Just take the pills.

PragmaticPulp 6y ago

> It's not like there are two discrete camps who are either for or against everything modern psychiatry has to offer. Equating it to the anti-vax movememt is disingenuous. I was responding to the parent comment, which claimed (falsely) that scientific consensus showed that psychiatry does not work at all. Claims like that are indeed equivalent to anti-vax movements. I’m not suggesting that psychiatry is without nuance or debated topics, but the parent comment was spreading false and potentially damaging information. As always, please consult with a medical professional, not random internet comments dismissing entire fields of medicine as a hoax.

0x2a 6y ago
> I was responding to the parent comment, which claimed (falsely) that scientific consensus showed that psychiatry does not work at all. Claims like that are indeed equivalent to anti-vax movements. You didn't respond specifically to the claim. It was just used to dismiss all caution in dealing with psychiatric medication as though it has the degree of certainty and understanding as vaccines.
01100011 6y ago
OP said "It's clear scientifically that no medication heals depression or addiction and yet these pills are happily prescribed in psychiatries." That is a far fetched claim regarding psychiatric medications(not psychiatry in general) but it is not without merit. I chose to forgo most medications because of the side effects. I have a friend with a similar set of problems and he's on something like 7 different meds and they're still changing after years of working with his doctor. They have kept him alive and yet he is worse off every time I see him. There are also many, many people who are helped by psychiatric medications. OP is wrong that there is no evidence for effectiveness of any medications but there is still some debate over the effectiveness of some classes of drugs(SSRIs for instance, last time I looked). We will have to agree to disagree on the appropriateness of likening criticism of psychiatric medications to the anti-vax movement.
- PragmaticPulp 6y ago
  > OP is wrong that there is no evidence for effectiveness of any medications but there is still some debate over the effectiveness of some classes of drugs(SSRIs for instance, last time I looked). Strongly the agree that the OP is wrong. I’m not sure why it’s so contentious. As for SSRIs: The famous paper questioning their effectiveness has been widely panned for coming to misleading conclusions. If you read the paper, even their conclusions show SSRIs outperforming placebo. The authors used a cherry-picked analysis technique (“effect size”) to argue that the effect size was not as large as they’d like, despite showing that the effective size of SSRIs was in the direction of showing superiority to placebo. It’s also difficult to evaluate these topics without fully understanding the science. SSRIs aren’t evaluates in isolation, they’re evaluated in relation to placebo. The problem is that placebo shows remarkable efficacy in some patients. This doesn’t mean that SSRIs are placebo (they still separate from placebo) but it does require careful analysis of the data. For example, SSRIs are significantly more effective than placebo in patients with severe depression, but they separate less in patients with mild depression. None of this means they are ineffective, but the data is often misconstrued as such by those with an anti-medicine agenda. I’m glad you’ve found a solution that works for you, but please refrain from projecting your own medication choices on to other vulnerable people online based on a cursory understanding of the research. > There are also many, many people who are helped by psychiatric medications. Strongly agree. Everyone should defer to medical professionals rather than HN comments for treatment decisions. It’s very unfortunate to see so many people choosing to avoid treatment for years out of unfounded fears of medications they’ve read online, just as it’s sad to see people avoiding vaccinations due to something they read on Facebook.

DanBC 6y ago

In this answer you show that you don't know what is meant by the term "anti-psychiatry".