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Obviously the world is a super simple place with super simple answers to seemingly complex questions. When I asked my friend which is better authoritarianism or

Obviously the world is a super simple place with super simple answers to seemingly complex questions. When I asked my friend which is better authoritarianism or democracy he told me the answer is complicated. I told him to look at the evidence: Almost Every civilization in history: egyptians, romans, greeks, China was more or less some form of authoritarian government. They all failed. Basically every single civilization that existed before modern civilization existed Failed! The fact that the United States of America hasn't failed means the US way (democracy) is the best and only way!

sam_lynx 6y ago
I think "failed" is subjective, what we should really be looking at is whether they provide for their citizens the best -- which democracy does.
- leafboi 6y ago
  All the civilizations I mentioned were authoritarian. Egyptian Pharaohs, Roman Caesars, Chinese Emperors. The history of all great civilizations is by a huge majority created and maintained through authoritative rule. In fact, modern anthropological theory states that the first step in the formation of a big civilization requires central authorities to form first. >what we should really be looking at is whether they provide for their citizens the best -- which democracy does America didn't have the capability to provide room for the influx of covid-19 patients. China built a hospital in a week. There's no question that for this specific instance, authoritarianism provided better for its' citizens than democracy. Like I said. Complicated. Multifaceted.
  - dragonwriter 6y ago
    > America didn't have the capability to provide room for the influx of covid-19 patients No, America had (and still has) central authority make (making) a conscious choice not only not to direct energy at that purpose but to actively interfere with subordinate authorities attempts to do so for purposes linked to maintaining institutional power by placing blame. There was no lack of capacity caused by the absence of central authority, there was active prevention caused by the interests of central authority. And the entire global pandemic is in no small part due to the delay and denial initially by China before they decided they needed to deal with it, again because of the propaganda interests of central authority. There certainly is utility in central organization in dealing with things like pandemics, but COVID-19 itself, especially the US and China subparts of it, are hardly a ringing endorsement of “central authority good”.
    - leafboi 6y ago
      >No, America had (and still has) central authority make (making) a conscious choice not only not to direct energy at that purpose but to actively interfere with subordinate authorities attempts to do so for purposes linked to maintaining institutional power by placing blame. Right of course. You're talking about the HBB, the Hospital Building Bureau the government sponsored central entity that builds all hospitals in the United States obeying trump and not building any hospitals. According to wikipedia: Health care in the United States is provided by many distinct organizations.[1] Health care facilities are largely owned and operated by private sector businesses. 58% of community hospitals in the United States are non-profit, 21% are government-owned, and 21% are for-profit. Which is pure BS. Hospitals are centrally planned like you said by the HBB! Central authorities are stopping hospitals from being built! Nothing to do with private enterprise or the lack of central control! My friend told me it's because private enterprise isn't reacting fast enough to demand because the demand is temporary and there really is no profit for private business to build more hospitals! What a stupid answer. Obviously it's a government conspiracy.
  - selimthegrim 6y ago
    Yes and how useful was that hospital? How much of that construction equipment moving about on the drone videos was just for show vs actually contributing to its construction?
    - leafboi 6y ago
      The hospital was built to save lives. Now that the initial wave of the pandemic is over the hospital sits empty. Private enterprise would never spend resources to build hospitals to save lives simply because it isn't "profitable." Only a centrally planned government will pull off such a feat purely in the name of saving lives without regard to profit. I mean literally no non-profit in the united states is capable of building a hospital just to handle a temporary spike in demand.
- Aperocky 6y ago
  Looking at India/China from 1950 on, it doesn't seem democracy has any game in this. It's all about economic policy.
blindspot557 6y ago
Lol. I think you should give US more time to fail? (I guess). It's only 260 so years. That's too short if you place it into human history.
- mensetmanusman 6y ago
  It’s actually one of the oldest continuing governments :) Current China is only ~70 years old for example. They have gone to great extents to erase their history, so they know they are young :)
  - leafboi 6y ago
    :) Roman empire failed after 1500 years. Portuguese Empire failed after 584 years. Khmer empire failed 630 years. Kush Empire failed after 1420 years. Silla Empire failed after 980 years Holy Roman empire failed after 838 years Kanem Empire failed after 676 years. Chinese empire failed after 2000 years. I asked my friend what's the connection between all these Civilizations? He told me "Empire." What a stupid answer. The connection is "failure." You know what hasn't failed! The United States of America that's what!
    - mensetmanusman 6y ago
      None of them had the internet to keep them together. I’m sure ycombinator will help the united states never fail.
- dragonelite 6y ago
  Kind this if you don't count the civil war as a reset point, one might as well not count civil wars/dynastic changes in ancient civilizations.
chillacy 6y ago
I assume this is sarcasm because by definition every non modern civilization is no longer with us. Including some of the early more democratic ones like Athens.
- leafboi 6y ago
  You shouldn't be asking yourself whether the post is sarcasm. You should be asking yourself does my post fit with the logic provided by the initial post? Then if the logic fits with the logic of the initial post you should ask yourself is the logic absurd? If so then that means the initial post is absurd.
  - chillacy 6y ago
    Initial post = parent post? or article? Can you spell it out? Why be coy on the internet?

sam_lynx 6y ago

I think "failed" is subjective, what we should really be looking at is whether they provide for their citizens the best -- which democracy does.

leafboi 6y ago
All the civilizations I mentioned were authoritarian. Egyptian Pharaohs, Roman Caesars, Chinese Emperors. The history of all great civilizations is by a huge majority created and maintained through authoritative rule. In fact, modern anthropological theory states that the first step in the formation of a big civilization requires central authorities to form first. >what we should really be looking at is whether they provide for their citizens the best -- which democracy does America didn't have the capability to provide room for the influx of covid-19 patients. China built a hospital in a week. There's no question that for this specific instance, authoritarianism provided better for its' citizens than democracy. Like I said. Complicated. Multifaceted.
- dragonwriter 6y ago
  > America didn't have the capability to provide room for the influx of covid-19 patients No, America had (and still has) central authority make (making) a conscious choice not only not to direct energy at that purpose but to actively interfere with subordinate authorities attempts to do so for purposes linked to maintaining institutional power by placing blame. There was no lack of capacity caused by the absence of central authority, there was active prevention caused by the interests of central authority. And the entire global pandemic is in no small part due to the delay and denial initially by China before they decided they needed to deal with it, again because of the propaganda interests of central authority. There certainly is utility in central organization in dealing with things like pandemics, but COVID-19 itself, especially the US and China subparts of it, are hardly a ringing endorsement of “central authority good”.
  - leafboi 6y ago
    >No, America had (and still has) central authority make (making) a conscious choice not only not to direct energy at that purpose but to actively interfere with subordinate authorities attempts to do so for purposes linked to maintaining institutional power by placing blame. Right of course. You're talking about the HBB, the Hospital Building Bureau the government sponsored central entity that builds all hospitals in the United States obeying trump and not building any hospitals. According to wikipedia: Health care in the United States is provided by many distinct organizations.[1] Health care facilities are largely owned and operated by private sector businesses. 58% of community hospitals in the United States are non-profit, 21% are government-owned, and 21% are for-profit. Which is pure BS. Hospitals are centrally planned like you said by the HBB! Central authorities are stopping hospitals from being built! Nothing to do with private enterprise or the lack of central control! My friend told me it's because private enterprise isn't reacting fast enough to demand because the demand is temporary and there really is no profit for private business to build more hospitals! What a stupid answer. Obviously it's a government conspiracy.
- selimthegrim 6y ago
  Yes and how useful was that hospital? How much of that construction equipment moving about on the drone videos was just for show vs actually contributing to its construction?
  - leafboi 6y ago
    The hospital was built to save lives. Now that the initial wave of the pandemic is over the hospital sits empty. Private enterprise would never spend resources to build hospitals to save lives simply because it isn't "profitable." Only a centrally planned government will pull off such a feat purely in the name of saving lives without regard to profit. I mean literally no non-profit in the united states is capable of building a hospital just to handle a temporary spike in demand.
Aperocky 6y ago
Looking at India/China from 1950 on, it doesn't seem democracy has any game in this. It's all about economic policy.

blindspot557 6y ago

Lol. I think you should give US more time to fail? (I guess). It's only 260 so years. That's too short if you place it into human history.

mensetmanusman 6y ago
It’s actually one of the oldest continuing governments :) Current China is only ~70 years old for example. They have gone to great extents to erase their history, so they know they are young :)
- leafboi 6y ago
  :) Roman empire failed after 1500 years. Portuguese Empire failed after 584 years. Khmer empire failed 630 years. Kush Empire failed after 1420 years. Silla Empire failed after 980 years Holy Roman empire failed after 838 years Kanem Empire failed after 676 years. Chinese empire failed after 2000 years. I asked my friend what's the connection between all these Civilizations? He told me "Empire." What a stupid answer. The connection is "failure." You know what hasn't failed! The United States of America that's what!
  - mensetmanusman 6y ago
    None of them had the internet to keep them together. I’m sure ycombinator will help the united states never fail.
dragonelite 6y ago
Kind this if you don't count the civil war as a reset point, one might as well not count civil wars/dynastic changes in ancient civilizations.

chillacy 6y ago

I assume this is sarcasm because by definition every non modern civilization is no longer with us. Including some of the early more democratic ones like Athens.

leafboi 6y ago
You shouldn't be asking yourself whether the post is sarcasm. You should be asking yourself does my post fit with the logic provided by the initial post? Then if the logic fits with the logic of the initial post you should ask yourself is the logic absurd? If so then that means the initial post is absurd.
- chillacy 6y ago
  Initial post = parent post? or article? Can you spell it out? Why be coy on the internet?