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Apple's iMessage lock-in and the effect it has on teens in the USA is disgusting. I think it's worse and deserves more attention than all of Apple's other atroc

by ewired 6y ago

Apple's iMessage lock-in and the effect it has on teens in the USA is disgusting. I think it's worse and deserves more attention than all of Apple's other atrocities combined; sadly, it won't get it, because it doesn't cause x rich people to lose money. Nobody loses money on iMessage except the parents (likely low-income) which are forced to buy an iPhone because their teens were left out of groups with friends and essentially excluded from socialization in school. This even comes down to bullying and exclusion over something as simple as a "green bubble" or a "blue bubble" just like bullying for having a more affordable brand of shoes. The effects are especially clear in rural places where standard SMS is far less reliable than Wi-Fi-based messaging. Nearly every peer I've asked has stated they know for a fact they would be plum left out of groups if they were to buy a phone without built-in iMessage. Props to Apple for developing the iMessage technology and making it accessible in the ways they already have, but very shameful and evil of them to pit iPhone users against non-iPhone users with something vital to humans like communication just so they can sell more iPhones. They've found a fantastically profitable way to abuse psychology in teens, as if it wasn't already bad enough that they're considered a designer brand. I'm honestly shocked that no one seems to care about this, and I haven't heard much protest other than from the many parents who were forced into buying an iPhone. Just buy an iPhone, problem solved. Just stay in debt to a major mobile carrier. Just keep upgrading. Just stay locked in. I would say the forced iMessage segregation alone is responsible for much of Apple's growth in the USA, and it's disturbing that it's allowed to continue without much protest from anyone.

cptskippy 6y ago
This does need more attention, I have teenagers and can confirm this is what happens. The Blue vs Green bubble is a huge stigma. Another thing I've noticed is that delivery of SMS to iPhones is very unreliable. I'm not sure why that is but I'll send SMS messages to our family group chat from my Android Device and my partner's phone will ding almost immediately but it can be up to 24 hours before my teen gets the message on an iPhone X.
- ThePowerOfFuet 6y ago
  Talk to your carrier about that delay. I bet they don't have any problems receiving 2FA messages etc.
- Bud 6y ago
  If you think it needs "more attention", you need to state what "attention" you think is needed. Do you think Apple should just ditch the radically superior iMessage protocol and force everyone to go back to 30-year-old SMS, which was developed in the mid-1980s? That's not going to happen.
  - cptskippy 6y ago
    > If you think it needs "more attention", you need to state what "attention" you think is needed. No, no I don't. > Do you think Apple should just ditch the radically superior iMessage protocol and force everyone to go back to 30-year-old SMS, which was developed in the mid-1980s? That's not going to happen. Did my post in any way suggest that? Apple's iMessage platform lock-in and degraded experience when communicating with non-iMessage users has real world social impact not just on children. Awareness ofnthis fact needs to be raised. It's obvious why Apple does it, iMessage brings people to the platform and locks them in for fear of social exclusion. This has monetary benefits for Apple in other areas such as hardware sales, iap, and the App store. If Apple offered RCS Messaging support in iMessage, and the green bubbles only indicated unencrypted communication, many of the social maladies of iMessage would go away and so would the motivation to adopt Apple's platform because people largely don't give a shot about e2e encryption.
darthrupert 6y ago
That teenagers (and even younger ones) practically require phones these days to survive socially is not Apple's fault. That's a civilization level fuckup.
- benologist 6y ago
  It is absolutely a deliberate decision by Apple to pressure people to use iPhones and to pressure people not to convert to using Android. Hopefully this will be one of the items on Congress' agenda as they disempower 'big tech'. > “When I asked a senior Apple executive why iMessage wasn’t being expanded to other platforms, he gave two answers,” reports Mossberg. “First, he said, Apple considers its own user base of 1 billion active devices to provide a large enough data set for any possible AI learning the company is working on. And, second, having a superior messaging platform that only worked on Apple devices would help sales of those devices — the company’s classic (and successful) rationale for years.” https://www.cultofmac.com/433784/apple-reveals-why-imessage-isnt-coming-to-android/ https://www.cultofmac.com/433784/apple-reveals-why-imessage-...
  - darthrupert 6y ago
    Platform feuds are totally irrelevant compared to the overall forcing children to own a smartphone. In fact, Android and Google has probably made the situation much worse by driving the prices down.
throwawayefc1 6y ago
This has to be satire.
paulcarroty 6y ago
iPhones are popular, so old models are cheap. I've bought recently an unlocked iphone 7 for family member, it costs me $140. Device is fast and performance is more than enough for everyday tasks. Still updating? Remember me any Android phone with 5 years support? > Just buy an iPhone, problem solved. Just stay in debt to a major mobile carrier. Just keep upgrading. Just stay locked in. Price comparison isn't so critical. Are you really need the latest pro model? Google privacy sucks 'cause ads pump - the main reason why I use iPhone and recommend it. Another way still exists - play with Hackintosh & AirMessage.
- bgorman 6y ago
  The technical skill required to setup a Hackintosh with AirMessage is beyond 99% of the population.
  - paulcarroty 6y ago
    Sure, but step-by-step guide always increase your chances heavily. Example: https://github.com/sickcodes/Docker-OSX https://github.com/sickcodes/Docker-OSX
- Synaesthesia 6y ago
  Yeah here in South Africa an iPhone 7 will cost like $200 2nd hand and $300-400 new. They’re not cheap here, they’re outrageously expensive
  - valuearb 6y ago
    The fastest smartphone on the planet, the iPhone SE2, is only $399 new in US. Can’t South Africans get someone to buy them in the US and ship it to SA stead of buying four year old iPhones?
  - mvanbaak 6y ago
    This is not because of apple. Complain with you government who puts insane taxes on the devices
Waterluvian 6y ago
This has been going on forever. Remember MSN vs. ICQ vs. AIM? And then apps like Trillian that just ran three accounts in the same UI.
- stirner 6y ago
  None of those messengers were tied to expensive hardware like iMessage.
  - Waterluvian 6y ago
    Very true. But it’s certainly the same concept and had very significant social effects purely because of artificial technical limitations.
  - valuearb 6y ago
    iPhones are only $399.
    - anoncake 6y ago
      "only"
      - valuearb 6y ago
        For something you can use for hours every day for the next half decade, that’s only about $8 a month. Each of my phones costs $480 a year just for service.
        anoncake 6y ago
        It's not about you. For a lot of people, $400 is a lot of money.
        valuearb 6y ago
        Not for people who can afford a cell phone. Let me repeat, a new SE2 costs about 1/4th as much as cell service.
supernova87a 6y ago
So you want teenagers to no longer care about fitting in with their friends and having ways to talk to them? What other human natures do you try to change?
- ehsankia 6y ago
  Or you could change the other side of the equation, and allow non-Apple devices to communicate with Apple devices without limiting them?
- baq 6y ago
  Why should they need to pay money to fit in with a green bubble? What if the bubble was white or black?
  - supernova87a 6y ago
    Why should they pay money to buy fancy playing cards, dolls, cars, clothing, anything? What are you railing against? Capitalism?
    - baq 6y ago
      Exploitation of human psychology. Trading health of others for a few bucks more in your already full pocket. If that’s capitalism then yes, I’m against that. I don’t agree that is or has to be capitalism, though.
      - supernova87a 6y ago
        I don't think I've come across any problem originating in someone's fundamental psychology and desires, where someone exploited it, and an externally imposed requirement to take away that particular exploiter simply solved the problem.
        okamiueru 6y ago
        I'm not sure where you live, but you've described something that I think has solved several such issues. Here are a few things that are illegal in my country to market in commercials: gambling, politics, medicaments, toys for children. Would that apply to what you are thinking?
ChuckNorris89 6y ago
Why is this a thing only in the US? In continental Europe youngsters all use Snapchat or WhatsApp or Facebook messenger or Telegram for group chat, all cross platform. iMessage is never the default one because that would exclude lots who don't have iphones even though Apple's products are a status symbol amongst school children. TL;DR: you can't make fun of your colleagues who can't afford iphones if you're unable to chat with them ;)
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- eddieroger 6y ago
  Because it's just there on devices they have. It is the default for tweens and teens who just got an iPhone handed down from a parent, and it works on day one. Regionality happened with IM clients back in the day as well - some areas favored AIM, some Yahoo, some MSN. Why did that happen? It just does.
  - hu3 6y ago
    That's called network effect.
- d_watt 6y ago
  Maybe because SMS became very popular in the US, and iMessage originally was just an extension of SMS from a UX perspective, 2 years after iPhone launched. It added functionality and fixed issues with SMS (multi-part messages, images, etc). This led to the dislike of "green bubbles" because it meant you were forcing a degraded experience on the other person. That started a positive feedback loop for iMessage. My understanding is SMS never got anywhere as popular in the EU.
  - ChuckNorris89 6y ago
    On the contrary, SMS was insanely popular in Europe before the smartphone revolution and before data plans were cheap just that people didn't want to lock themselves in with Apple's proprietary iMessage otherwise they couldn't talk to others who don't have iphones.
Razengan 6y ago
> Apple's iMessage lock-in is a choice. Nothing is stopping you and your friends from moving to another platform, each with their own """lock-in"""
- baq 6y ago
  You don’t have kids, right?
  - tinus_hn 6y ago
    It surely is Apples fault they can’t say ‘no’ to their children! Everyone knows kids can’t survive without an iPhone, Nike shoes and designer clothes so these should be subsidized.
    - Razengan 6y ago
      Honestly, most of these comments here are disgustingly tone deaf. Do these people complain about each and every feature on other products that keeps someone attached to a platform?
      - molszanski 6y ago
        Mostly Apple. Maybe because it is huge, maybe because they have some weird feelings toward Apple company. I think your observation is very true
old-gregg 6y ago
Let's see... you're proposing that a company should just hand out their competitive advantage just because some parents are unable to curb their consumerism / keeping up with the Jonesses an dealing with "psychology in teens"? Nobody forces you to use iMessage. Use Snap, Whatsapp, Telegram, FB messenger, whatever. You don't need to be upgrading with every cycle (or even every other cycle) either. I am on my 4th smartphone since 2008, replacing a battery is cheaper that replacing phones. And if your teen insists on the latest&greatest instead, that should be your problem, not Apple's. Without their walled garden Apple is nothing but a commodity hardware maker and those do not survive for long on this side of the Pacific.
- minitoar 6y ago
  In rural places you only have SMS. The walled garden is where all the communication is happening.
  - ewired 6y ago
    The opposite is true. In rural places, you often only have Wi-Fi by way of AT&T DSL or WildBlue/HughesNet satellite broadband. Your iMessage messages always deliver instantly. Meanwhile, the SS7 SMS messages always fail to send, because you have 0 bars of cellular service. Even in cases where there is cellular service, iMessage and other IP-based messaging is far more reliable.
    - minitoar 6y ago
      I guess not all rural places are the same.
- Synaesthesia 6y ago
  Why should we pander to the needs of Apple, a corporation making a few people wealthy beyond all imagination, but not much else?
  - old-gregg 6y ago
tasogare 6y ago
Maybe this is just a US centric issue? I have an iPhone for years, a lot of people I know too, yet I never saw anyone using iMessage, nor I personally use it. Everyone I know is using either Facebook Messenger, Line, Whatsapp, Telegram or a combination of both. SMS are dead, and are too costly to be used internationally to begin with. Apple could remove iMessage that are not SMS related (useful once a while to get a confirmation code) and most of the world wouldn’t even notice.
- viraptor 6y ago
  It is us-centric. There's enough choice in communication apps that iMessage is just a status symbol.
supernova87a 6y ago
I feel the same way about Magic: The Gathering cards. We need to really band together and protest this company's dominance over our youth. They (or their parents) are being forced to spend large sums of money just to be locked into this card ecosystem, so that they can play with their friends. The company designs these cards with certain appealing colors and characters, and charges a hefty premium for them. And anyone who can't afford to buy the cards (or is threatened with copyright violations if they make their own) is left out of that community. And every year I'm forced to buy a new set of cards just to keep up with friends. Clearly they've engineered some addictive property into these cards to produce that very effect. --- Is this similar enough? Or maybe it's the NFL or NBA or Nike shoes, or little league hockey, that we should cut/paste in there?
- Waterfall 6y ago
  Are you kidding me? Everyone plays magic online now. Nobody plays in person except for casual (usually elder dragon) and tournaments. You can print proxies but better yet you can use a program like magic workstation to play any cards for free if you don't post the official wizards one. As long as they don't look like real MTG cards it's ok usually. Most people offline carry more than one deck too. I don't see any of your issues as a real problem at least in my life its always been fine.
  - supernova87a 6y ago
    :D In case you don't realize, I'm joking above. And I have no idea how Magic cards work.
    - Waterfall 6y ago
      Sorry it should have been obvious lol. Like how Nvidia screwed the 2000 buyers lol
- splatzone 6y ago
  I think you are right, consumer companies make a lot of money off of teens' status anxiety across the board. The problem goes a lot deeper than any one product
robin_reala 6y ago
“atrocities”? I think you might need to recalibrate your worldview.
crazygringo 6y ago
> something as simple as a "green bubble" or a "blue bubble" just like bullying for having a more affordable brand of shoes This meme that it's "just about the color of the bubble" has got to die. Messaging over SMS is way worse in every way. Group messaging breaks inconsistently in ten different ways, you have issues with attachments, you miss a bunch of other features, etc. When you text in groups as much as teens do, these things matter. Not being able to use half the features you regularly use because one person in the group chat is Android is going to be legitimately frustrating. What's interesting, however, is why the US population has settled on iMessage for premium messaging features, instead of WhatsApp like so many other countries.
- wincy 6y ago
  Why would I download another app? iMessage is baked in. Heck I can send reactions to my friends messages with their android phones now. That’s as much as I care about as an adult.
  - crazygringo 6y ago
    Right, I'm that way too. But the rest of the world basically chose to download another app instead. So that's what I wonder about -- why did the US not bother, but the rest of the world did? What was different about the US?
    - ishaanbahal 6y ago
      > Right, I'm that way too. But the rest of the world basically chose to download another app instead. > So that's what I wonder about -- why did the US not bother, but the rest of the world did? What was different about the US? Not sure about the rest of the world, but India specifically, has more whatsapp users because we have more Android users. iPhone is considered more of a luxury here, even now and with millions using android devices, ios users do end up downloading a common app that everyone has. Also helped by the fact that there's no standardisation of message apps in android, though Google messages is trying RCS, more than half the phones don't ship with Google messages, even the close to stock ones like OnePlus have their own implementation, so a third party became standard for even android to android communication.
raspasov 6y ago
Good satire.
unabst 6y ago
Absolutely. The "white earphone cord" thing was cool when iPods first came out (as an Apple brand PR thing) but iMessage is not cool because it has direct negative consequences, especially among less kind social circles. But I have also found this true working with clients. They'd be like "you don't have an iphone?" and I'd have to show them my beautiful purple Xperia 1 to demonstrate why, but that should be redundant. But what I have also found is Android's negelgence. The standard Messages for Web was broken for myself, and is broken for many people (will keep disconnecting from phone). They seem to have introduced new "chat features" but they had yet to show up. Worse yet, my international Xperia wouldn't send group MMS properly with the standard Messaging app. But it would work on other apps. That is why I would highly recommend the Pulse app. It has dual sim support as well as a snappy web interface. It really should be the standard. I find joy in customizing my phone and figuring these things out, but the defaults need to be more sensible for android users. Nothing could be worse than cheaper phones subsidized by bloatware (ux wise).
cwhiz 6y ago
You can boil this entire comment down to “human nature is annoying.” You picked iMessage here but you could have picked clothing lines, cars, jewelry, or any other status symbol item.
molszanski 6y ago
> more attention than all of Apple's other atrocities combined; In 2010 the've introduced FaceTime (revolutionary back then, especially on poor connections) and wanted to make it open, open standard etc. But they got half a billion lawsuit from a patent troll over P2P patent infringement. In 2011 they've introduced iMessage that also relies heavily on p2p too. It is 2020 and they are still fighting this troll in court over facetime 2010. search: apple vs VirnetX Knowing that, I just don't see this as clear cut as you on Apple being sneaky on teen psychology
- fungizid 6y ago
  Apple has changed the design of FaceTime in response to the case. Why are they not opening it up now? > Apple decided to redesign how it did FaceTime on a technical level as a way to bypass the patents (in essence, it stopped using an IP address as final authorization when creating a VPN between two devices and instead uses a push token, certificate and session token). https://www.theregister.com/2019/11/25/apple_facetime_patent/ https://www.theregister.com/2019/11/25/apple_facetime_patent...
alfalfasprout 6y ago
You can thank VirnetX and its patent-troll CEO Kendall Larsen for this. Apple's still fighting them in court over Facetime and iMessage is covered by patents VirnetX claims to own. Apple could not open up iMessage even if it wanted to.
- justapassenger 6y ago
  That seems like a weak excuse. Why would patent trolls affect ability to open a standard but not affect ability to ship and profit from software using that standard for a decade? Apple is known for many things, and they make pretty damn good products, but open standards isn't one of the things they're known for.
parasubvert 6y ago
“Atrocities” Apple made a successful product (arguably part of the most successful non-consumable product in human history!) that lots of people use, and prevent the competition from interoperation. People don’t protest because that once was (still is?) the career goal of most people in business. This website is also an adjunct of a Silicon Valley incubator whose members dream of building something with this level of influence.
mvanbaak 6y ago
Lol. Thank your own country’s stupid patent troll movement. Apple wanted to make it an open platform, you us people thought it was better to have a patent troll lock it down
aendruk 6y ago
> protest After switching from Android I disabled iMessage for precisely this reason. A green bubble I shall proudly remain.

by ewired 6y ago

cptskippy 6y ago

This does need more attention, I have teenagers and can confirm this is what happens. The Blue vs Green bubble is a huge stigma. Another thing I've noticed is that delivery of SMS to iPhones is very unreliable. I'm not sure why that is but I'll send SMS messages to our family group chat from my Android Device and my partner's phone will ding almost immediately but it can be up to 24 hours before my teen gets the message on an iPhone X.

ThePowerOfFuet 6y ago
Talk to your carrier about that delay. I bet they don't have any problems receiving 2FA messages etc.
Bud 6y ago
If you think it needs "more attention", you need to state what "attention" you think is needed. Do you think Apple should just ditch the radically superior iMessage protocol and force everyone to go back to 30-year-old SMS, which was developed in the mid-1980s? That's not going to happen.
- cptskippy 6y ago
  > If you think it needs "more attention", you need to state what "attention" you think is needed. No, no I don't. > Do you think Apple should just ditch the radically superior iMessage protocol and force everyone to go back to 30-year-old SMS, which was developed in the mid-1980s? That's not going to happen. Did my post in any way suggest that? Apple's iMessage platform lock-in and degraded experience when communicating with non-iMessage users has real world social impact not just on children. Awareness ofnthis fact needs to be raised. It's obvious why Apple does it, iMessage brings people to the platform and locks them in for fear of social exclusion. This has monetary benefits for Apple in other areas such as hardware sales, iap, and the App store. If Apple offered RCS Messaging support in iMessage, and the green bubbles only indicated unencrypted communication, many of the social maladies of iMessage would go away and so would the motivation to adopt Apple's platform because people largely don't give a shot about e2e encryption.

darthrupert 6y ago

That teenagers (and even younger ones) practically require phones these days to survive socially is not Apple's fault. That's a civilization level fuckup.

benologist 6y ago
It is absolutely a deliberate decision by Apple to pressure people to use iPhones and to pressure people not to convert to using Android. Hopefully this will be one of the items on Congress' agenda as they disempower 'big tech'. > “When I asked a senior Apple executive why iMessage wasn’t being expanded to other platforms, he gave two answers,” reports Mossberg. “First, he said, Apple considers its own user base of 1 billion active devices to provide a large enough data set for any possible AI learning the company is working on. And, second, having a superior messaging platform that only worked on Apple devices would help sales of those devices — the company’s classic (and successful) rationale for years.” https://www.cultofmac.com/433784/apple-reveals-why-imessage-isnt-coming-to-android/ https://www.cultofmac.com/433784/apple-reveals-why-imessage-...
- darthrupert 6y ago
  Platform feuds are totally irrelevant compared to the overall forcing children to own a smartphone. In fact, Android and Google has probably made the situation much worse by driving the prices down.

throwawayefc1 6y ago

This has to be satire.

paulcarroty 6y ago

iPhones are popular, so old models are cheap. I've bought recently an unlocked iphone 7 for family member, it costs me $140. Device is fast and performance is more than enough for everyday tasks. Still updating? Remember me any Android phone with 5 years support? > Just buy an iPhone, problem solved. Just stay in debt to a major mobile carrier. Just keep upgrading. Just stay locked in. Price comparison isn't so critical. Are you really need the latest pro model? Google privacy sucks 'cause ads pump - the main reason why I use iPhone and recommend it. Another way still exists - play with Hackintosh & AirMessage.

bgorman 6y ago
The technical skill required to setup a Hackintosh with AirMessage is beyond 99% of the population.
- paulcarroty 6y ago
  Sure, but step-by-step guide always increase your chances heavily. Example: https://github.com/sickcodes/Docker-OSX https://github.com/sickcodes/Docker-OSX
Synaesthesia 6y ago
Yeah here in South Africa an iPhone 7 will cost like $200 2nd hand and $300-400 new. They’re not cheap here, they’re outrageously expensive
- valuearb 6y ago
  The fastest smartphone on the planet, the iPhone SE2, is only $399 new in US. Can’t South Africans get someone to buy them in the US and ship it to SA stead of buying four year old iPhones?
- mvanbaak 6y ago
  This is not because of apple. Complain with you government who puts insane taxes on the devices

Waterluvian 6y ago

This has been going on forever. Remember MSN vs. ICQ vs. AIM? And then apps like Trillian that just ran three accounts in the same UI.

stirner 6y ago
None of those messengers were tied to expensive hardware like iMessage.
- Waterluvian 6y ago
  Very true. But it’s certainly the same concept and had very significant social effects purely because of artificial technical limitations.
- valuearb 6y ago
  iPhones are only $399.
  - anoncake 6y ago
    "only"
    - valuearb 6y ago
      For something you can use for hours every day for the next half decade, that’s only about $8 a month. Each of my phones costs $480 a year just for service.
      - anoncake 6y ago
        It's not about you. For a lot of people, $400 is a lot of money.
        valuearb 6y ago
        Not for people who can afford a cell phone. Let me repeat, a new SE2 costs about 1/4th as much as cell service.

supernova87a 6y ago

So you want teenagers to no longer care about fitting in with their friends and having ways to talk to them? What other human natures do you try to change?

ehsankia 6y ago
Or you could change the other side of the equation, and allow non-Apple devices to communicate with Apple devices without limiting them?
baq 6y ago
Why should they need to pay money to fit in with a green bubble? What if the bubble was white or black?
- supernova87a 6y ago
  Why should they pay money to buy fancy playing cards, dolls, cars, clothing, anything? What are you railing against? Capitalism?
  - baq 6y ago
    Exploitation of human psychology. Trading health of others for a few bucks more in your already full pocket. If that’s capitalism then yes, I’m against that. I don’t agree that is or has to be capitalism, though.
    - supernova87a 6y ago
      I don't think I've come across any problem originating in someone's fundamental psychology and desires, where someone exploited it, and an externally imposed requirement to take away that particular exploiter simply solved the problem.
      - okamiueru 6y ago
        I'm not sure where you live, but you've described something that I think has solved several such issues. Here are a few things that are illegal in my country to market in commercials: gambling, politics, medicaments, toys for children. Would that apply to what you are thinking?

ChuckNorris89 6y ago

Why is this a thing only in the US? In continental Europe youngsters all use Snapchat or WhatsApp or Facebook messenger or Telegram for group chat, all cross platform. iMessage is never the default one because that would exclude lots who don't have iphones even though Apple's products are a status symbol amongst school children. TL;DR: you can't make fun of your colleagues who can't afford iphones if you're unable to chat with them ;)

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
eddieroger 6y ago
Because it's just there on devices they have. It is the default for tweens and teens who just got an iPhone handed down from a parent, and it works on day one. Regionality happened with IM clients back in the day as well - some areas favored AIM, some Yahoo, some MSN. Why did that happen? It just does.
- hu3 6y ago
  That's called network effect.
d_watt 6y ago
Maybe because SMS became very popular in the US, and iMessage originally was just an extension of SMS from a UX perspective, 2 years after iPhone launched. It added functionality and fixed issues with SMS (multi-part messages, images, etc). This led to the dislike of "green bubbles" because it meant you were forcing a degraded experience on the other person. That started a positive feedback loop for iMessage. My understanding is SMS never got anywhere as popular in the EU.
- ChuckNorris89 6y ago
  On the contrary, SMS was insanely popular in Europe before the smartphone revolution and before data plans were cheap just that people didn't want to lock themselves in with Apple's proprietary iMessage otherwise they couldn't talk to others who don't have iphones.

Razengan 6y ago

> Apple's iMessage lock-in is a choice. Nothing is stopping you and your friends from moving to another platform, each with their own """lock-in"""

baq 6y ago
You don’t have kids, right?
- tinus_hn 6y ago
  It surely is Apples fault they can’t say ‘no’ to their children! Everyone knows kids can’t survive without an iPhone, Nike shoes and designer clothes so these should be subsidized.
  - Razengan 6y ago
    Honestly, most of these comments here are disgustingly tone deaf. Do these people complain about each and every feature on other products that keeps someone attached to a platform?
    - molszanski 6y ago
      Mostly Apple. Maybe because it is huge, maybe because they have some weird feelings toward Apple company. I think your observation is very true

old-gregg 6y ago

Let's see... you're proposing that a company should just hand out their competitive advantage just because some parents are unable to curb their consumerism / keeping up with the Jonesses an dealing with "psychology in teens"? Nobody forces you to use iMessage. Use Snap, Whatsapp, Telegram, FB messenger, whatever. You don't need to be upgrading with every cycle (or even every other cycle) either. I am on my 4th smartphone since 2008, replacing a battery is cheaper that replacing phones. And if your teen insists on the latest&greatest instead, that should be your problem, not Apple's. Without their walled garden Apple is nothing but a commodity hardware maker and those do not survive for long on this side of the Pacific.

minitoar 6y ago
In rural places you only have SMS. The walled garden is where all the communication is happening.
- ewired 6y ago
  The opposite is true. In rural places, you often only have Wi-Fi by way of AT&T DSL or WildBlue/HughesNet satellite broadband. Your iMessage messages always deliver instantly. Meanwhile, the SS7 SMS messages always fail to send, because you have 0 bars of cellular service. Even in cases where there is cellular service, iMessage and other IP-based messaging is far more reliable.
  - minitoar 6y ago
    I guess not all rural places are the same.
Synaesthesia 6y ago
Why should we pander to the needs of Apple, a corporation making a few people wealthy beyond all imagination, but not much else?
- old-gregg 6y ago

tasogare 6y ago

Maybe this is just a US centric issue? I have an iPhone for years, a lot of people I know too, yet I never saw anyone using iMessage, nor I personally use it. Everyone I know is using either Facebook Messenger, Line, Whatsapp, Telegram or a combination of both. SMS are dead, and are too costly to be used internationally to begin with. Apple could remove iMessage that are not SMS related (useful once a while to get a confirmation code) and most of the world wouldn’t even notice.

viraptor 6y ago
It is us-centric. There's enough choice in communication apps that iMessage is just a status symbol.

supernova87a 6y ago

I feel the same way about Magic: The Gathering cards. We need to really band together and protest this company's dominance over our youth. They (or their parents) are being forced to spend large sums of money just to be locked into this card ecosystem, so that they can play with their friends. The company designs these cards with certain appealing colors and characters, and charges a hefty premium for them. And anyone who can't afford to buy the cards (or is threatened with copyright violations if they make their own) is left out of that community. And every year I'm forced to buy a new set of cards just to keep up with friends. Clearly they've engineered some addictive property into these cards to produce that very effect. --- Is this similar enough? Or maybe it's the NFL or NBA or Nike shoes, or little league hockey, that we should cut/paste in there?

Waterfall 6y ago
Are you kidding me? Everyone plays magic online now. Nobody plays in person except for casual (usually elder dragon) and tournaments. You can print proxies but better yet you can use a program like magic workstation to play any cards for free if you don't post the official wizards one. As long as they don't look like real MTG cards it's ok usually. Most people offline carry more than one deck too. I don't see any of your issues as a real problem at least in my life its always been fine.
- supernova87a 6y ago
  :D In case you don't realize, I'm joking above. And I have no idea how Magic cards work.
  - Waterfall 6y ago
    Sorry it should have been obvious lol. Like how Nvidia screwed the 2000 buyers lol
splatzone 6y ago
I think you are right, consumer companies make a lot of money off of teens' status anxiety across the board. The problem goes a lot deeper than any one product

robin_reala 6y ago

“atrocities”? I think you might need to recalibrate your worldview.

crazygringo 6y ago

> something as simple as a "green bubble" or a "blue bubble" just like bullying for having a more affordable brand of shoes This meme that it's "just about the color of the bubble" has got to die. Messaging over SMS is way worse in every way. Group messaging breaks inconsistently in ten different ways, you have issues with attachments, you miss a bunch of other features, etc. When you text in groups as much as teens do, these things matter. Not being able to use half the features you regularly use because one person in the group chat is Android is going to be legitimately frustrating. What's interesting, however, is why the US population has settled on iMessage for premium messaging features, instead of WhatsApp like so many other countries.

wincy 6y ago
Why would I download another app? iMessage is baked in. Heck I can send reactions to my friends messages with their android phones now. That’s as much as I care about as an adult.
- crazygringo 6y ago
  Right, I'm that way too. But the rest of the world basically chose to download another app instead. So that's what I wonder about -- why did the US not bother, but the rest of the world did? What was different about the US?
  - ishaanbahal 6y ago
    > Right, I'm that way too. But the rest of the world basically chose to download another app instead. > So that's what I wonder about -- why did the US not bother, but the rest of the world did? What was different about the US? Not sure about the rest of the world, but India specifically, has more whatsapp users because we have more Android users. iPhone is considered more of a luxury here, even now and with millions using android devices, ios users do end up downloading a common app that everyone has. Also helped by the fact that there's no standardisation of message apps in android, though Google messages is trying RCS, more than half the phones don't ship with Google messages, even the close to stock ones like OnePlus have their own implementation, so a third party became standard for even android to android communication.

raspasov 6y ago

Good satire.

unabst 6y ago

Absolutely. The "white earphone cord" thing was cool when iPods first came out (as an Apple brand PR thing) but iMessage is not cool because it has direct negative consequences, especially among less kind social circles. But I have also found this true working with clients. They'd be like "you don't have an iphone?" and I'd have to show them my beautiful purple Xperia 1 to demonstrate why, but that should be redundant. But what I have also found is Android's negelgence. The standard Messages for Web was broken for myself, and is broken for many people (will keep disconnecting from phone). They seem to have introduced new "chat features" but they had yet to show up. Worse yet, my international Xperia wouldn't send group MMS properly with the standard Messaging app. But it would work on other apps. That is why I would highly recommend the Pulse app. It has dual sim support as well as a snappy web interface. It really should be the standard. I find joy in customizing my phone and figuring these things out, but the defaults need to be more sensible for android users. Nothing could be worse than cheaper phones subsidized by bloatware (ux wise).

cwhiz 6y ago

You can boil this entire comment down to “human nature is annoying.” You picked iMessage here but you could have picked clothing lines, cars, jewelry, or any other status symbol item.

molszanski 6y ago

> more attention than all of Apple's other atrocities combined; In 2010 the've introduced FaceTime (revolutionary back then, especially on poor connections) and wanted to make it open, open standard etc. But they got half a billion lawsuit from a patent troll over P2P patent infringement. In 2011 they've introduced iMessage that also relies heavily on p2p too. It is 2020 and they are still fighting this troll in court over facetime 2010. search: apple vs VirnetX Knowing that, I just don't see this as clear cut as you on Apple being sneaky on teen psychology

fungizid 6y ago
Apple has changed the design of FaceTime in response to the case. Why are they not opening it up now? > Apple decided to redesign how it did FaceTime on a technical level as a way to bypass the patents (in essence, it stopped using an IP address as final authorization when creating a VPN between two devices and instead uses a push token, certificate and session token). https://www.theregister.com/2019/11/25/apple_facetime_patent/ https://www.theregister.com/2019/11/25/apple_facetime_patent...

alfalfasprout 6y ago

You can thank VirnetX and its patent-troll CEO Kendall Larsen for this. Apple's still fighting them in court over Facetime and iMessage is covered by patents VirnetX claims to own. Apple could not open up iMessage even if it wanted to.

justapassenger 6y ago
That seems like a weak excuse. Why would patent trolls affect ability to open a standard but not affect ability to ship and profit from software using that standard for a decade? Apple is known for many things, and they make pretty damn good products, but open standards isn't one of the things they're known for.

parasubvert 6y ago

“Atrocities” Apple made a successful product (arguably part of the most successful non-consumable product in human history!) that lots of people use, and prevent the competition from interoperation. People don’t protest because that once was (still is?) the career goal of most people in business. This website is also an adjunct of a Silicon Valley incubator whose members dream of building something with this level of influence.

mvanbaak 6y ago

Lol. Thank your own country’s stupid patent troll movement. Apple wanted to make it an open platform, you us people thought it was better to have a patent troll lock it down

aendruk 6y ago

> protest After switching from Android I disabled iMessage for precisely this reason. A green bubble I shall proudly remain.