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What examples of communism are you looking at that "haven't worked?" I really hope you aren't about to suggest the soviet union, that would be silly, considerin

What examples of communism are you looking at that "haven't worked?" I really hope you aren't about to suggest the soviet union, that would be silly, considering it had a state, social classes, currency, and no general ownership of the means of production, and therefore wasn't communism. Might surprise you to learn that communism is working this very day, on communes all across the world. Also, the basic tenants of it have manifested themselves in various civilizations throughout history.

erinnh 6y ago
If a system doesn't work in a larger society it's not a system that can replace our current one that somewhat works on that scale.
- komali2 6y ago
  Falsely assumed premise: that this "scaled" society is necessary or ethical.
dbsmith83 6y ago
Wow, if Soviet Union wasn't communist, wonder why there is such a gigantic section about it here... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communism#Soviet_Union https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communism#Soviet_Union
- boomboomsubban 6y ago
  Because they called themselves Communist? Calling yourself something doesn't make it true.
  - dbsmith83 6y ago
    Yeah, I think I'm gonna go with the vast amount of documented sources on this one
ByteJockey 6y ago
>I really hope you aren't about to suggest the soviet union, that would be silly, considering it had a state, social classes, currency, and no general ownership of the means of production, and therefore wasn't communism. Y'know, this is a fair point for a philosophical conversation. It's a terrible point in a conversation about deciding how to actually organize society, however. You can't ultimately know what people's intentions are before the fact. How other people who claimed to have the same ideology behaved once they gained power is inherently relevant. Let's turn this around for a second. Let's say someone comes to you and says "Hitler got fascism totally wrong". It's actually a really great ideology that Hitler violated by doing X, Y, and Z. Would you give this person power in the real world?
- komali2 6y ago
  > d. Let's say someone comes to you and says "Hitler got fascism totally wrong". It's actually a really great ideology that Hitler violated by doing X, Y, and Z. Would you give this person power in the real world? What? No! Because hitler got fascism perfectly right, and fascism is a terribly unethical way to organize government. I meant specifically I am all about anarcho communism, it's happening and working right now in communes all around the world, has worked in the past, and imo is better than massive nation states forced to point nukes at each other on a hair trigger to sustain themselves.
  - ByteJockey 6y ago
    > Because hitler got fascism perfectly right Huh, out of all the potential responses, this is actually the one I wasn't expecting. Mostly because fascism is notoriously poorly defined to the point where experts can't agree on what it actually means. To the point where the wikipedia page on its various definition is quite a lengthy read ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Definitions_of_fascism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Definitions_of_fascism ). While I agree with you on the downsides of the large, powerful nation states, My point was more about the rationality of outsiders to these ideologies. The reaction of "People labeling themselves this way enacted totalitarian governments during large parts of the 20th century, I probably shouldn't give any power to current people labeling themselves this way." are fairly rational.

erinnh 6y ago

If a system doesn't work in a larger society it's not a system that can replace our current one that somewhat works on that scale.

komali2 6y ago
Falsely assumed premise: that this "scaled" society is necessary or ethical.

dbsmith83 6y ago

Wow, if Soviet Union wasn't communist, wonder why there is such a gigantic section about it here... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communism#Soviet_Union https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communism#Soviet_Union

boomboomsubban 6y ago
Because they called themselves Communist? Calling yourself something doesn't make it true.
- dbsmith83 6y ago
  Yeah, I think I'm gonna go with the vast amount of documented sources on this one

ByteJockey 6y ago

>I really hope you aren't about to suggest the soviet union, that would be silly, considering it had a state, social classes, currency, and no general ownership of the means of production, and therefore wasn't communism. Y'know, this is a fair point for a philosophical conversation. It's a terrible point in a conversation about deciding how to actually organize society, however. You can't ultimately know what people's intentions are before the fact. How other people who claimed to have the same ideology behaved once they gained power is inherently relevant. Let's turn this around for a second. Let's say someone comes to you and says "Hitler got fascism totally wrong". It's actually a really great ideology that Hitler violated by doing X, Y, and Z. Would you give this person power in the real world?

komali2 6y ago
> d. Let's say someone comes to you and says "Hitler got fascism totally wrong". It's actually a really great ideology that Hitler violated by doing X, Y, and Z. Would you give this person power in the real world? What? No! Because hitler got fascism perfectly right, and fascism is a terribly unethical way to organize government. I meant specifically I am all about anarcho communism, it's happening and working right now in communes all around the world, has worked in the past, and imo is better than massive nation states forced to point nukes at each other on a hair trigger to sustain themselves.
- ByteJockey 6y ago
  > Because hitler got fascism perfectly right Huh, out of all the potential responses, this is actually the one I wasn't expecting. Mostly because fascism is notoriously poorly defined to the point where experts can't agree on what it actually means. To the point where the wikipedia page on its various definition is quite a lengthy read ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Definitions_of_fascism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Definitions_of_fascism ). While I agree with you on the downsides of the large, powerful nation states, My point was more about the rationality of outsiders to these ideologies. The reaction of "People labeling themselves this way enacted totalitarian governments during large parts of the 20th century, I probably shouldn't give any power to current people labeling themselves this way." are fairly rational.