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> I’ve worked at two companies that tried genuinely unlimited vacation policies. I wish companies would stop using the word "unlimited" for this. It's unspecif

> I’ve worked at two companies that tried genuinely unlimited vacation policies. I wish companies would stop using the word "unlimited" for this. It's unspecified vacation policy, not unlimited.

PragmaticPulp 6y ago
I debated calling it something else to avoid getting pulled into debates about semantics. I’ll put it this way: The company tried the “As long as you get work done, it doesn’t matter how many hours you work” approach. The problematic part of this equation is that “your work” isn’t a fixed quantity. When we allocate tasks and set weekly goals according to how much people can reasonably accomplish in a week, the “your work” variable becomes a proxy for how much that person is willing to work that week. The loophole is to minimize the number of tasks assigned to yourself while maximizing the perception of how long it took. The honest team members didn’t play this game and naturally ended up around 40 hours, mostly 9-5ish. It was the people gaming the system who played this game the most, obviously, and they tended to claim off hours and weekends as extra time spent working alone, assuming we couldn’t disprove it.
- MacsHeadroom 6y ago
  "Your workload" being arbitrary on the employees side is balanced out by "your wages" and their continuation being arbitrary on the employers side. Whether that rubs up against some idealized mythological puritan work ethic doesn't change the fact of the matter.
- balfirevic 6y ago
  > I debated calling it something else to avoid getting pulled into debates about semantics. Sure, but the larger point would be that the companies call it that way, which would still be dumb even if we didn't get into that discussion right now. (BTW, was "unlimited" the term that was actually used where you worked?) > The problematic part of this equation is that “your work” isn’t a fixed quantity. When we allocate tasks and set weekly goals according to how much people can reasonably accomplish in a week, the “your work” variable becomes a proxy for how much that person is willing to work that week. Yes, of course. What is puzzling to me is - how is this not completely obvious right from the start to everyone involved? > It was the people gaming the system who played this game the most, obviously, and they tended to claim off hours and weekends as extra time spent working alone, assuming we couldn’t disprove it. This part sounds more related to "work whenever you want policy" than "work as much as you want". It was obviously the case that people were expected to work 40-ish hours/week and take roughly the same amount of vacation as was the norm before unlimited/unspecified vacation policy.
- brandonmenc 6y ago
  > The problematic part of this equation is that “your work” isn’t a fixed quantity. Deal with the discrepancy by rewarding high output.
  - sharemywin 6y ago
    How do you define high output. I remember I was in high school and there were 10 homework problems. I goofed off all day and everyone else worked on the home work. They got 9 of them done. I got interested and solved the 10th. Had I worked on the 9 problems with them I might not of even had the desire/energy to look at the 10th.
yencabulator 6y ago
"Unlimited" like cellular data usage. Use too much and they'll terminate your contract. No, they won't tell you how much is too much.

> I’ve worked at two companies that tried genuinely unlimited vacation policies. I wish companies would stop using the word "unlimited" for this. It's unspecified vacation policy, not unlimited.

PragmaticPulp 6y ago

I debated calling it something else to avoid getting pulled into debates about semantics. I’ll put it this way: The company tried the “As long as you get work done, it doesn’t matter how many hours you work” approach. The problematic part of this equation is that “your work” isn’t a fixed quantity. When we allocate tasks and set weekly goals according to how much people can reasonably accomplish in a week, the “your work” variable becomes a proxy for how much that person is willing to work that week. The loophole is to minimize the number of tasks assigned to yourself while maximizing the perception of how long it took. The honest team members didn’t play this game and naturally ended up around 40 hours, mostly 9-5ish. It was the people gaming the system who played this game the most, obviously, and they tended to claim off hours and weekends as extra time spent working alone, assuming we couldn’t disprove it.

MacsHeadroom 6y ago
"Your workload" being arbitrary on the employees side is balanced out by "your wages" and their continuation being arbitrary on the employers side. Whether that rubs up against some idealized mythological puritan work ethic doesn't change the fact of the matter.
balfirevic 6y ago
> I debated calling it something else to avoid getting pulled into debates about semantics. Sure, but the larger point would be that the companies call it that way, which would still be dumb even if we didn't get into that discussion right now. (BTW, was "unlimited" the term that was actually used where you worked?) > The problematic part of this equation is that “your work” isn’t a fixed quantity. When we allocate tasks and set weekly goals according to how much people can reasonably accomplish in a week, the “your work” variable becomes a proxy for how much that person is willing to work that week. Yes, of course. What is puzzling to me is - how is this not completely obvious right from the start to everyone involved? > It was the people gaming the system who played this game the most, obviously, and they tended to claim off hours and weekends as extra time spent working alone, assuming we couldn’t disprove it. This part sounds more related to "work whenever you want policy" than "work as much as you want". It was obviously the case that people were expected to work 40-ish hours/week and take roughly the same amount of vacation as was the norm before unlimited/unspecified vacation policy.
brandonmenc 6y ago
> The problematic part of this equation is that “your work” isn’t a fixed quantity. Deal with the discrepancy by rewarding high output.
- sharemywin 6y ago
  How do you define high output. I remember I was in high school and there were 10 homework problems. I goofed off all day and everyone else worked on the home work. They got 9 of them done. I got interested and solved the 10th. Had I worked on the 9 problems with them I might not of even had the desire/energy to look at the 10th.

yencabulator 6y ago

"Unlimited" like cellular data usage. Use too much and they'll terminate your contract. No, they won't tell you how much is too much.