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Would you pay the same amount of tax as you do today if you weren't forced? Do you believe others would? Do you think that having taxes to pay for school and ro

Would you pay the same amount of tax as you do today if you weren't forced? Do you believe others would? Do you think that having taxes to pay for school and roads is unreasonable?

boomboomsubban 6y ago
The principle of voluntary association addresses these issues. If your needs and wants were actually considered, you would be more willing to pay taxes.
- username90 6y ago
  That is nothing more than wishful thinking. There is a reason unions has to force its members to pay dues and not just live on donations.
  - boomboomsubban 6y ago
    That is an example of voluntary association. They chose to gain the benefits of the union, they need to pay the dues.
    - username90 6y ago
      My point is that voluntary donations isn't enough to run much at all, even for organizations that the worker is in control of. And a society needs roads. How would you ensure people pay for roads in an anarchist society? Would you have toll booths everywhere? That isn't economically feasible. Donations? As I said that isn't even enough to pay for a worker union, roads needs more than that.
      - boomboomsubban 6y ago
        Voluntary association, not voluntary donations. People need roads, when this problem is brought up they will be willing to pay for roads. If you are unwilling, you aren't part of the society anymore.
        username90 6y ago
        > People need roads, when this problem is brought up they will be willing to pay for roads. If you are unwilling, you aren't part of the society anymore. Sounds like taxes to me.
        boomboomsubban 6y ago
        I never said there wouldn't be taxes.
        aoeusnth1 6y ago
        How does banishment from society work? What happens to people who refuse to leave and still use the roads?
        boomboomsubban 6y ago
        Those are kinds of decisions that the society should make.
        bccdee 6y ago
        That's how taxes work though. If you want to be part of society (have a job, employ others, own real estate or a business), then you have to pay taxes on those. After all, the well-being of the economy is a public good maintained by the state. If you don't participate in any of those ways, then you don't need to pay taxes. If you try to participate in society but don't pay the tax for doing so, you get punished.
        boomboomsubban 6y ago
        There is no option to leave society and not pay those taxes, while that option is present in anarchism. You are forced to be a part of the state or you face strict punishment.
        stale2002 6y ago
        So then that is not voluntarily association. Because presumably, you would be kicking people off of roads, using force, if they refuse to pay the roads tax. That's using force.
  - komali2 6y ago
    "wishful thinking" alone isn't a good enough argument to consider the case settled. The American democratic system is "just wishful thinking," in reality powerful oligarchs control many of the day to day levers through lobbying and outright bribery, while other oligarchs slowly transform entire swaths of the population into willing sheep (rupert murdoch). But america still works, kinda, so it's not enough to say "it's just wishful thinking."
    - username90 6y ago
      Ultimately the rulers of USA are decided by the people. You might have a lot of trickery and corruption behind the scenes, but every politician still needs to get votes from actual workers so they can't be too alienated. This isn't optimal, but it works well in theory and is fairly robust since if the system gets too corrupt people will vote in an unsanctioned candidate.
bloudermilk 6y ago
Of all the hypotheticals, taxation has to be the most incongruent with anarchism.
- username90 6y ago
  That is my point. I strongly believe taxation is absolutely necessary for a good society. This part should have been addressed in the article but he skips over it completely. If you believe that every human should receive education and healthcare and be protected from criminals then you aren't an anarchist.
  - komali2 6y ago
    Wouldn't this be where anarcho communism comes into play? If there's no currency there's not really a need for taxation.

Would you pay the same amount of tax as you do today if you weren't forced? Do you believe others would? Do you think that having taxes to pay for school and roads is unreasonable?

boomboomsubban 6y ago

The principle of voluntary association addresses these issues. If your needs and wants were actually considered, you would be more willing to pay taxes.

username90 6y ago
That is nothing more than wishful thinking. There is a reason unions has to force its members to pay dues and not just live on donations.
- boomboomsubban 6y ago
  That is an example of voluntary association. They chose to gain the benefits of the union, they need to pay the dues.
  - username90 6y ago
    My point is that voluntary donations isn't enough to run much at all, even for organizations that the worker is in control of. And a society needs roads. How would you ensure people pay for roads in an anarchist society? Would you have toll booths everywhere? That isn't economically feasible. Donations? As I said that isn't even enough to pay for a worker union, roads needs more than that.
    - boomboomsubban 6y ago
      Voluntary association, not voluntary donations. People need roads, when this problem is brought up they will be willing to pay for roads. If you are unwilling, you aren't part of the society anymore.
      - username90 6y ago
        > People need roads, when this problem is brought up they will be willing to pay for roads. If you are unwilling, you aren't part of the society anymore. Sounds like taxes to me.
        boomboomsubban 6y ago
        I never said there wouldn't be taxes.
      - aoeusnth1 6y ago
        How does banishment from society work? What happens to people who refuse to leave and still use the roads?
        boomboomsubban 6y ago
        Those are kinds of decisions that the society should make.
      - bccdee 6y ago
        That's how taxes work though. If you want to be part of society (have a job, employ others, own real estate or a business), then you have to pay taxes on those. After all, the well-being of the economy is a public good maintained by the state. If you don't participate in any of those ways, then you don't need to pay taxes. If you try to participate in society but don't pay the tax for doing so, you get punished.
        boomboomsubban 6y ago
        There is no option to leave society and not pay those taxes, while that option is present in anarchism. You are forced to be a part of the state or you face strict punishment.
      - stale2002 6y ago
        So then that is not voluntarily association. Because presumably, you would be kicking people off of roads, using force, if they refuse to pay the roads tax. That's using force.
- komali2 6y ago
  "wishful thinking" alone isn't a good enough argument to consider the case settled. The American democratic system is "just wishful thinking," in reality powerful oligarchs control many of the day to day levers through lobbying and outright bribery, while other oligarchs slowly transform entire swaths of the population into willing sheep (rupert murdoch). But america still works, kinda, so it's not enough to say "it's just wishful thinking."
  - username90 6y ago
    Ultimately the rulers of USA are decided by the people. You might have a lot of trickery and corruption behind the scenes, but every politician still needs to get votes from actual workers so they can't be too alienated. This isn't optimal, but it works well in theory and is fairly robust since if the system gets too corrupt people will vote in an unsanctioned candidate.

bloudermilk 6y ago

Of all the hypotheticals, taxation has to be the most incongruent with anarchism.

username90 6y ago
That is my point. I strongly believe taxation is absolutely necessary for a good society. This part should have been addressed in the article but he skips over it completely. If you believe that every human should receive education and healthcare and be protected from criminals then you aren't an anarchist.
- komali2 6y ago
  Wouldn't this be where anarcho communism comes into play? If there's no currency there's not really a need for taxation.