4 ms·

I agree with everything you write, except: > If you don't like the bundled model, then you can carry on using Ubuntu 20.04 without Snaps just fine. No, you ca

I agree with everything you write, except: > If you don't like the bundled model, then you can carry on using Ubuntu 20.04 without Snaps just fine. No, you can't. Ubuntu has started replacing apt packages with snaps. So if you want to install those packages (such as Chromium) you now have to use the snap.

rlpb 6y ago
You can install Chromium from a third party source just like you could before. New distribution releases always add and remove packages. Chromium has been removed (as a deb). It's is no longer packaged as a deb because it's a rolling release upstream and it was too much work to backport featureful rolling release to debs.
- NeutronStar 6y ago
  Whats the point of using Ubuntu at that point? Why not just use Debian if you're gonna manually install everything anyway instead?
- Delk 6y ago
  The transition in Chromium packaging is understandable from a maintenance point of view. However, the general argument that you can just keep using the system without using snaps "just fine" doesn't really hold if the snaps begin to replace rather than supplement software that used to be packaged without it. The same is also somewhat true if first-class tools such as Software (as in the "store" GUI) begin to push snap packages as the first thing, because then you will, by default, need to go through additional steps to find the packages that you want, and which used to be available as the first choice. You can still do things, of course, but it might be that you need to start getting around the snap-centric design choices more often, and at that point it doesn't come at no usability cost to you anymore. I don't actually use Ubuntu at the moment, so I don't know how much that is the case now, but if it is (or if seems like it's going that way), I understand the frustration.
  - dabockster 6y ago
    > However, the general argument that you can just keep using the system without using snaps "just fine" doesn't really hold if the snaps begin to replace rather than supplement software that used to be packaged without it. Well, if you don't like it, you can always fork it. That's the beauty of open source. /sarcasm Seriously though, all out replacing stuff with Snaps doesn't seem like the right move.
- mariusor 6y ago
  > it was too much work to backport featureful rolling release to debs. Considering that (as other posters have mentioned) deb packages are released by the vendor in this case it feels like a flimsy excuse.
mjangle1985 6y ago
>No, you can't. Ubuntu has started replacing apt packages with snaps. So if you want to install those packages (such as Chromium) you now have to use the snap. You can almost always install via deb if you want instead.
- fartcannon 6y ago
  For _now_, you can. Slowly boiling the frog is really effective.
  - mjangle1985 6y ago
    You believe that Canonical will remove the ability to install from deb?
    - toyg 6y ago
      At some point, they likely will. I'd wager they will require deb packages to be signed with a certain Canonical key that they will use strictly for basic system packages. Everything else will be a sandboxed Snap, left to third-parties to maintain, distributed through a Canonical Appstore that enables payments. Maybe they will give you an option to "root" the system, and if you use it you'll lose any right to support or updates from Canonical. Snap is fundamentally a commercial play to reduce support costs and enable an appstore.
      - mjangle1985 6y ago
        IF they do that I'm obviously leaving their ecosystem, though I'm just a consumer so no clue how much effect I would have. I really don't see what benefit that would provide them over other distros though and I'm not sure why they would make that choice to close down their system? Fundamentally Linux works so well because of the free software movement and I don't see any app maintainers choosing to charge a fee for their software if they aren't already.
        6y ago

rlpb 6y ago

You can install Chromium from a third party source just like you could before. New distribution releases always add and remove packages. Chromium has been removed (as a deb). It's is no longer packaged as a deb because it's a rolling release upstream and it was too much work to backport featureful rolling release to debs.

NeutronStar 6y ago
Whats the point of using Ubuntu at that point? Why not just use Debian if you're gonna manually install everything anyway instead?
Delk 6y ago
The transition in Chromium packaging is understandable from a maintenance point of view. However, the general argument that you can just keep using the system without using snaps "just fine" doesn't really hold if the snaps begin to replace rather than supplement software that used to be packaged without it. The same is also somewhat true if first-class tools such as Software (as in the "store" GUI) begin to push snap packages as the first thing, because then you will, by default, need to go through additional steps to find the packages that you want, and which used to be available as the first choice. You can still do things, of course, but it might be that you need to start getting around the snap-centric design choices more often, and at that point it doesn't come at no usability cost to you anymore. I don't actually use Ubuntu at the moment, so I don't know how much that is the case now, but if it is (or if seems like it's going that way), I understand the frustration.
- dabockster 6y ago
  > However, the general argument that you can just keep using the system without using snaps "just fine" doesn't really hold if the snaps begin to replace rather than supplement software that used to be packaged without it. Well, if you don't like it, you can always fork it. That's the beauty of open source. /sarcasm Seriously though, all out replacing stuff with Snaps doesn't seem like the right move.
mariusor 6y ago
> it was too much work to backport featureful rolling release to debs. Considering that (as other posters have mentioned) deb packages are released by the vendor in this case it feels like a flimsy excuse.

mjangle1985 6y ago

>No, you can't. Ubuntu has started replacing apt packages with snaps. So if you want to install those packages (such as Chromium) you now have to use the snap. You can almost always install via deb if you want instead.

fartcannon 6y ago
For _now_, you can. Slowly boiling the frog is really effective.
- mjangle1985 6y ago
  You believe that Canonical will remove the ability to install from deb?
  - toyg 6y ago
    At some point, they likely will. I'd wager they will require deb packages to be signed with a certain Canonical key that they will use strictly for basic system packages. Everything else will be a sandboxed Snap, left to third-parties to maintain, distributed through a Canonical Appstore that enables payments. Maybe they will give you an option to "root" the system, and if you use it you'll lose any right to support or updates from Canonical. Snap is fundamentally a commercial play to reduce support costs and enable an appstore.
    - mjangle1985 6y ago
      IF they do that I'm obviously leaving their ecosystem, though I'm just a consumer so no clue how much effect I would have. I really don't see what benefit that would provide them over other distros though and I'm not sure why they would make that choice to close down their system? Fundamentally Linux works so well because of the free software movement and I don't see any app maintainers choosing to charge a fee for their software if they aren't already.
      - 6y ago