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Yes, apparently he died last week. The person said to be behind the phrase we are the 99% at the Occupy Wall Street movement. He was an interesting character.

Yes, apparently he died last week. The person said to be behind the phrase we are the 99% at the Occupy Wall Street movement. He was an interesting character. My question would be: do anarchists really work as professors at the London School of Economics? And Yale? Aren't you a 'system man' at that point?

approxim8ion 6y ago
That's kind of like saying you can't criticize capitalism while still using an iPhone. I don't feel it holds.
cblconfederate 6y ago
Anarchists are not an alien species, nor is there an anarchistan yet. They live among us
- jacquesm 6y ago
  I suspect that if an anarchistan would be created within a lifetime it would 'revert' to some other well known political framework, either a democracy or a dictatorship. If there was an anarchistan in recent history it was a probably Somalia and even there you now find a regular government.
  - ozborn 6y ago
    A more appropriate example of "anarchistan" would probably be Catalonia during the civil war in the 1930s. It has been written and discussed by Orwell, Bookchin and many others. Your point is well taken though, at the end it did function as part of a "regular" democratic government before being crushed in the civil war both by Soviet backed communists and Franco.
- feralimal 6y ago
  Well, I suspect that David Graeber, who quietly self-proclaimed himself as one of the leaders of Occupy Wall Street, was one of those people designed to make 'anarchistan' a distant reality. He would take the energy invested in him and then faceplant before the finish line. By say, proposing that the left wing should be voted for. He was in support of Corbyn etc - this is to say he was happy to work within the system. You might say that this is a pragmatic view - but really he represented a hard left view. Anarchism is, by definition, no-leaders. Self-determination. Neither communism nor a libertarian position. So I think in practise he was in contradiction of the beliefs he purported to hold. BS jobs was good though!
  - vidarh 6y ago
    Libertarianism was conceived by the anarcho-communist Joseph Dejacque, who first used the term to call Proudhon, the father of anarchism a mere 'moderate anarchist, liberal but not libertarian'. For about a century libertarianism was exclusive a far left ideology including mostly anarchists and libertarian Marxists.
    - feralimal 6y ago
      I suspect hard left and hard right meet up eventually... :)
jhrmnn 6y ago
You can be a capitalist and still say true statements about anarchism, both supportive and unsupportive. Or vice versa.
- koheripbal 6y ago
  Once you support anarchism, your other positions become oxymorons because you're working to eliminate the systems that make organization possible.
mathieuh 6y ago
We all have to live in this system, it's unrealistic to think all anarchists should be ideologically pure and live in the woods off the land like Kaczynski. I believe thinking and writing and getting these ideas into the mainstream can be a form of praxis. As Zizek says, sometimes the most revolutionary thing to do is nothing at all.
- evgen 6y ago
  Ah, the wonderful 'do as I say, not as I do' flavour of anarchism. Apparently, it is the only type of anarchism one actually finds in the wild.
- feralimal 6y ago
  Absolutely. The system is pervasive and we have to live within it. But should you embrace it? While Yale and LSE are no doubt great institutions, to my mind they are also up there as educators of those who go on to become the system's top managers.
  - vidarh 6y ago
    LSE has a history as a hotbed of activism ever since it was the focal point of UK student rebellions in the late 60s. It's not nearly as Conservative as you might think.
    - feralimal 6y ago
      Hotbed is right. The institution literally force grows radicalism. And yet, it is considered a top university. The reason is that it helps to present what is in fact a false dichotomy. The radical thought they support is that within the Overton window. Nothing that would really shake up the ruling elite is expressed there. Like CNN and Fox news.
rmrfrmrf 6y ago
Doesn't surprise me considering neoliberalism and anarchism have a lot of the same goals in terms of dismantling the state.
pessimizer 6y ago
It's a good question. Not specifically about the London School of Economics, because that was started by Marxist Fabian Society members 125 years ago, but about a lot of academia. Of course anarchism is a resistance to rule by domination, not to systems and procedures. Some universities are no doubt power centers, though. edit: anarchism means "no ruler." It's usually painted by people who think rulers are necessary as something like amorphism i.e. "no shape."
Retr0 6y ago
Well he was fired by Yale for his political actions (Although of course they didn't say that). https://www.theguardian.com/world/2005/oct/25/usa.internationaleducationnews https://www.theguardian.com/world/2005/oct/25/usa.internatio...
woko 6y ago
> do anarchists really work as professors at the London School of Economics? And Yale? I know a banker who is communist. It does not mean that he behaves like a communist in his actions, but he does in his words. From my perspective, he takes the best (or the worst) of both worlds: the quality of life of a very rich man who can afford living in the most expensive places and whatever leisure he wants, and the ability to punch down on the "lesser" people around him from his morally higher stand-point. Never under-estimate people's hypocrisy and cognitive dissonance, especially when what is at stake is exerting power over other people's lives. One can always find a way to rationalize one's crappy behaviour to try to lower the cognitive dissonance after the fact.
- feralimal 6y ago
  > I know a banker who is communist. That's an incontinent position to hold and he must have high cognitive dissonance of schizophrenia. Except if he is duplicitously self-serving, ie happy to receive the payments but not the opprobrium that comes with a high paying system position.
  - vidarh 6y ago
    You'd be very surprised how many socialists and communists there are in banking. On one hand one of the things Proudhon and Marx agreed on was that driving down the cost of credit is an inherently radical act - the cheaper credit becomes the weaker the hold of employers over employees becomes, as it becomes easier to start for yourself. On the other hand in finance you see the mechanisms at work laid bare. Nowhere else than in finance and in far left groups have I seen the same extent of shared fear (AND optimism - people tend to be unaware the Communist Manifesto starts with fanboy-level praise for the advances brought by capitalism) about the long term societal effects of automation for example.
    - feralimal 6y ago
      I'm not surprised. They see themselves as doing the best for themselves - that's anarchy, right? But they are prepared to harm others to do it. But even so, they want to be thought well of. I guess bankers and communists share the idea of looking at 'the people' as a group to be governed and managed. Both are wedded to the system. I think communistic thinking is the idea that seems to have won, and (technocratic) governance is going to proceed with that as its basis.

approxim8ion 6y ago

That's kind of like saying you can't criticize capitalism while still using an iPhone. I don't feel it holds.

cblconfederate 6y ago

Anarchists are not an alien species, nor is there an anarchistan yet. They live among us

jacquesm 6y ago
I suspect that if an anarchistan would be created within a lifetime it would 'revert' to some other well known political framework, either a democracy or a dictatorship. If there was an anarchistan in recent history it was a probably Somalia and even there you now find a regular government.
- ozborn 6y ago
  A more appropriate example of "anarchistan" would probably be Catalonia during the civil war in the 1930s. It has been written and discussed by Orwell, Bookchin and many others. Your point is well taken though, at the end it did function as part of a "regular" democratic government before being crushed in the civil war both by Soviet backed communists and Franco.
feralimal 6y ago
Well, I suspect that David Graeber, who quietly self-proclaimed himself as one of the leaders of Occupy Wall Street, was one of those people designed to make 'anarchistan' a distant reality. He would take the energy invested in him and then faceplant before the finish line. By say, proposing that the left wing should be voted for. He was in support of Corbyn etc - this is to say he was happy to work within the system. You might say that this is a pragmatic view - but really he represented a hard left view. Anarchism is, by definition, no-leaders. Self-determination. Neither communism nor a libertarian position. So I think in practise he was in contradiction of the beliefs he purported to hold. BS jobs was good though!
- vidarh 6y ago
  Libertarianism was conceived by the anarcho-communist Joseph Dejacque, who first used the term to call Proudhon, the father of anarchism a mere 'moderate anarchist, liberal but not libertarian'. For about a century libertarianism was exclusive a far left ideology including mostly anarchists and libertarian Marxists.
  - feralimal 6y ago
    I suspect hard left and hard right meet up eventually... :)

jhrmnn 6y ago

You can be a capitalist and still say true statements about anarchism, both supportive and unsupportive. Or vice versa.

koheripbal 6y ago
Once you support anarchism, your other positions become oxymorons because you're working to eliminate the systems that make organization possible.

mathieuh 6y ago

We all have to live in this system, it's unrealistic to think all anarchists should be ideologically pure and live in the woods off the land like Kaczynski. I believe thinking and writing and getting these ideas into the mainstream can be a form of praxis. As Zizek says, sometimes the most revolutionary thing to do is nothing at all.

evgen 6y ago
Ah, the wonderful 'do as I say, not as I do' flavour of anarchism. Apparently, it is the only type of anarchism one actually finds in the wild.
feralimal 6y ago
Absolutely. The system is pervasive and we have to live within it. But should you embrace it? While Yale and LSE are no doubt great institutions, to my mind they are also up there as educators of those who go on to become the system's top managers.
- vidarh 6y ago
  LSE has a history as a hotbed of activism ever since it was the focal point of UK student rebellions in the late 60s. It's not nearly as Conservative as you might think.
  - feralimal 6y ago
    Hotbed is right. The institution literally force grows radicalism. And yet, it is considered a top university. The reason is that it helps to present what is in fact a false dichotomy. The radical thought they support is that within the Overton window. Nothing that would really shake up the ruling elite is expressed there. Like CNN and Fox news.

rmrfrmrf 6y ago

Doesn't surprise me considering neoliberalism and anarchism have a lot of the same goals in terms of dismantling the state.

pessimizer 6y ago

It's a good question. Not specifically about the London School of Economics, because that was started by Marxist Fabian Society members 125 years ago, but about a lot of academia. Of course anarchism is a resistance to rule by domination, not to systems and procedures. Some universities are no doubt power centers, though. edit: anarchism means "no ruler." It's usually painted by people who think rulers are necessary as something like amorphism i.e. "no shape."

Retr0 6y ago

Well he was fired by Yale for his political actions (Although of course they didn't say that). https://www.theguardian.com/world/2005/oct/25/usa.internationaleducationnews https://www.theguardian.com/world/2005/oct/25/usa.internatio...

woko 6y ago

> do anarchists really work as professors at the London School of Economics? And Yale? I know a banker who is communist. It does not mean that he behaves like a communist in his actions, but he does in his words. From my perspective, he takes the best (or the worst) of both worlds: the quality of life of a very rich man who can afford living in the most expensive places and whatever leisure he wants, and the ability to punch down on the "lesser" people around him from his morally higher stand-point. Never under-estimate people's hypocrisy and cognitive dissonance, especially when what is at stake is exerting power over other people's lives. One can always find a way to rationalize one's crappy behaviour to try to lower the cognitive dissonance after the fact.

feralimal 6y ago
> I know a banker who is communist. That's an incontinent position to hold and he must have high cognitive dissonance of schizophrenia. Except if he is duplicitously self-serving, ie happy to receive the payments but not the opprobrium that comes with a high paying system position.
- vidarh 6y ago
  You'd be very surprised how many socialists and communists there are in banking. On one hand one of the things Proudhon and Marx agreed on was that driving down the cost of credit is an inherently radical act - the cheaper credit becomes the weaker the hold of employers over employees becomes, as it becomes easier to start for yourself. On the other hand in finance you see the mechanisms at work laid bare. Nowhere else than in finance and in far left groups have I seen the same extent of shared fear (AND optimism - people tend to be unaware the Communist Manifesto starts with fanboy-level praise for the advances brought by capitalism) about the long term societal effects of automation for example.
  - feralimal 6y ago
    I'm not surprised. They see themselves as doing the best for themselves - that's anarchy, right? But they are prepared to harm others to do it. But even so, they want to be thought well of. I guess bankers and communists share the idea of looking at 'the people' as a group to be governed and managed. Both are wedded to the system. I think communistic thinking is the idea that seems to have won, and (technocratic) governance is going to proceed with that as its basis.