6 ms·

Can Greek Tragedy Get Us Through the Pandemic?

26 points by diodorus 6y ago

coldtea 6y ago
Ah, good old New Yorker. As if people, including its own readership, ever bother to read Greek Tragedy (aside a statistically insignificant minority).
- jcelerier 6y ago
  Dunno about how it is in the states but most french students have read at least one tragedy during their curriculum.
- twirlip 6y ago
  Not very long ago, as time is reckoned, one needed to read Greek and Latin to be considered educated. One was expected to be familiar with certain cultural idioms of Western Civilization relearned from antiquity during the Renaissance. The classical ideas of virtue, rhetoric, politics, mathematics, and natural philosophy still hold value. To ignore this tradition and relegate it to a "statistically insignificant minority" is, I believe, a mistake.
  - coldtea 6y ago
    I'm in favor of a fundamental knowledge of the classics. Regarding the "statistically insignificant minority", I'm just stating facts, not saying it's a good development.
082349872349872 6y ago
Which is the one with Cassandra? Maybe they should do that one.
- 082349872349872 6y ago
  Aeschylus, Agamemnon The Cassandra connection being: Those who don't study epidemics are doomed to repeat them. Those who do study epidemics are doomed to watch reservoirs repeat them.
spirobel 6y ago
you know deep down that the only thing that can get us through this Pandemic is this: wake up and realize its not worse than the flu. If we want to end this nightmare we need to stop being scared. How do we do this: stop watching the news and hold the people responsible that created this mess.
- jacquesm 6y ago
  > realize its not worse than the flu Sick and tired of this being repeated on HN over and over again.
  - dane-pgp 6y ago
    > Sick and tired Sure it's annoying, but it's not worse than the flu. /s
  - spirobel 6y ago
    so you like being scared of things that are objectivly not scary?
    - jacquesm 6y ago
      Objectively not scary? Do fuck off. 200K people dead in the USA in 7 months and nowhere near the end of the epidemic and that's just the dead. I've been out for the count for three weeks continuously in March / early April and to this day I'm not at my old energy level. No flu ever hit me that hard, even the really bad ones, and I had - apparently - a mild case. You are utterly clueless and part of the problem, I wouldn't wish this bug on my worst enemy.
      - spirobel 6y ago
        my parents both had the corona virus and they are both fine. Maybe its just psychosomatics from all the induced media panic. look at sweden. they have herd immunity now and its not a nation of corpses and cripples. just ease up a little on the panic news and you will feel better.
blfr 6y ago
The essence of tragedy is a conflict between two equal values. Despite some superficial similarities, we generally don't share ancient Greek values and so we cannot properly experience this conflict. These are beautiful works of art but they won't resonate with us like they did with the original audiences. The example they use is Antigone. However, the unburied body goes deeply against the ancestor worship common for early societies. While we honour our ancestors, worship is largely gone not just for ancestors but from our daily lives in general with the lessening or religious practices. There's no debating with results, and if it helps, go for it, but I doubt moderns can feel catharsis when watching a performance of ancient plays like Greeks did.
- heavenlyblue 6y ago
  That play isn’t about burial, it’s about the difference between the private and public. The difference between the story we tell to the public and in person.
ShorsHammer 6y ago
Who on Earth posts this crap and why does it end up on the front page? Science and proven strategies can get everyone through this easily. Apparently that's incredibly hard for many to accept though. Just look at the outcomes in every country with maskwearers vs those without for instance. This stuff is incredibly simple, the problem is the innate politicisation of every single issue in Western democracies and the tango between various level of governance that has incentivised being a contrarian.
mplanchard 6y ago
It’s crazy to me how dismissive the comments here have been. This is an impressively researched, well-written article that presents a very earnest attempt to help people work through difficult times through the medium of theater. The theater group is founded by someone with extensive knowledge of classics and antiquity, and it seems like it tries to draw a direct parallel between the very human experiences in Greek tragedy to those experienced by people today. This seems no more unreasonable to me than learning about the human condition from Shakespeare. Art is and has always been one of the most well-used means for us to connect with and contemplate our own humanity. The approach outlined in the article is a really interesting take on the active use of art to drive psychological catharsis. I for one really enjoyed it, and I’m inspired to see that these actors, directors, and playwrights are trying to use what they know to help others.

26 points by diodorus 6y ago

Ah, good old New Yorker. As if people, including its own readership, ever bother to read Greek Tragedy (aside a statistically insignificant minority).

jcelerier 6y ago
Dunno about how it is in the states but most french students have read at least one tragedy during their curriculum.
twirlip 6y ago
Not very long ago, as time is reckoned, one needed to read Greek and Latin to be considered educated. One was expected to be familiar with certain cultural idioms of Western Civilization relearned from antiquity during the Renaissance. The classical ideas of virtue, rhetoric, politics, mathematics, and natural philosophy still hold value. To ignore this tradition and relegate it to a "statistically insignificant minority" is, I believe, a mistake.
- coldtea 6y ago
  I'm in favor of a fundamental knowledge of the classics. Regarding the "statistically insignificant minority", I'm just stating facts, not saying it's a good development.

082349872349872 6y ago

Which is the one with Cassandra? Maybe they should do that one.

082349872349872 6y ago
Aeschylus, Agamemnon The Cassandra connection being: Those who don't study epidemics are doomed to repeat them. Those who do study epidemics are doomed to watch reservoirs repeat them.

spirobel 6y ago

you know deep down that the only thing that can get us through this Pandemic is this: wake up and realize its not worse than the flu. If we want to end this nightmare we need to stop being scared. How do we do this: stop watching the news and hold the people responsible that created this mess.

jacquesm 6y ago
> realize its not worse than the flu Sick and tired of this being repeated on HN over and over again.
- dane-pgp 6y ago
  > Sick and tired Sure it's annoying, but it's not worse than the flu. /s
- spirobel 6y ago
  so you like being scared of things that are objectivly not scary?
  - jacquesm 6y ago
    Objectively not scary? Do fuck off. 200K people dead in the USA in 7 months and nowhere near the end of the epidemic and that's just the dead. I've been out for the count for three weeks continuously in March / early April and to this day I'm not at my old energy level. No flu ever hit me that hard, even the really bad ones, and I had - apparently - a mild case. You are utterly clueless and part of the problem, I wouldn't wish this bug on my worst enemy.
    - spirobel 6y ago
      my parents both had the corona virus and they are both fine. Maybe its just psychosomatics from all the induced media panic. look at sweden. they have herd immunity now and its not a nation of corpses and cripples. just ease up a little on the panic news and you will feel better.

blfr 6y ago

The essence of tragedy is a conflict between two equal values. Despite some superficial similarities, we generally don't share ancient Greek values and so we cannot properly experience this conflict. These are beautiful works of art but they won't resonate with us like they did with the original audiences. The example they use is Antigone. However, the unburied body goes deeply against the ancestor worship common for early societies. While we honour our ancestors, worship is largely gone not just for ancestors but from our daily lives in general with the lessening or religious practices. There's no debating with results, and if it helps, go for it, but I doubt moderns can feel catharsis when watching a performance of ancient plays like Greeks did.

heavenlyblue 6y ago
That play isn’t about burial, it’s about the difference between the private and public. The difference between the story we tell to the public and in person.

ShorsHammer 6y ago

Who on Earth posts this crap and why does it end up on the front page? Science and proven strategies can get everyone through this easily. Apparently that's incredibly hard for many to accept though. Just look at the outcomes in every country with maskwearers vs those without for instance. This stuff is incredibly simple, the problem is the innate politicisation of every single issue in Western democracies and the tango between various level of governance that has incentivised being a contrarian.

mplanchard 6y ago

It’s crazy to me how dismissive the comments here have been. This is an impressively researched, well-written article that presents a very earnest attempt to help people work through difficult times through the medium of theater. The theater group is founded by someone with extensive knowledge of classics and antiquity, and it seems like it tries to draw a direct parallel between the very human experiences in Greek tragedy to those experienced by people today. This seems no more unreasonable to me than learning about the human condition from Shakespeare. Art is and has always been one of the most well-used means for us to connect with and contemplate our own humanity. The approach outlined in the article is a really interesting take on the active use of art to drive psychological catharsis. I for one really enjoyed it, and I’m inspired to see that these actors, directors, and playwrights are trying to use what they know to help others.