6 ms·

Honestly I never found PG’s writing that insightful and ANSI Lisp was a bit of a pain to read That doesn’t take away from any of his success, which has been im

by Abhinav2000 6y ago

Honestly I never found PG’s writing that insightful and ANSI Lisp was a bit of a pain to read That doesn’t take away from any of his success, which has been immense (anybody who has made over a billion is obviously amazing and had the ultimate life) but he has become too much of a cult figure in comparison to others in that stratosphere

justinator 6y ago
Right place, right time, long days.
yodsanklai 6y ago
> he has become too much of a cult figure I didn't know who PG was until recently. I knew he was well respected on HN but I've never found that much value in his blog posts either. Maybe people like his writings in the light of his achievements, rather than for their intrinsic values.
- Abhinav2000 6y ago
  That’s exactly it. Everybody would dream to have his life and his blogs do give a vivid imagery that makes you feel good and believe you can do the same (plus with YC actually giving some hope). But I’ve learnt a lot more from others, who are not nearly as successful.
  - whitepoplar 6y ago
    Who are some of the other people you've learned a great deal from? I'm curious!
    - mastazi 6y ago
      I'm not parent but - it might be people that are close to them IRL and not well known online. Personally, it was like that for me. However unlike parent, I also feel like I get a lot of value from reading PG
- dang 6y ago
  His essays were what attracted people to YC (and HN) in the first place.
  - klanderson 6y ago
    This is true, I bought the "Hackers and Painters" book before discovering HN. Pretty inspiring at the time. This sort of interesting writing seems to have stopped in general. Spolsky and Yegge are other positive examples from that era, which of course is just 10 years ago.
- darkerside 6y ago
  There are many classic books and movies that people read now and say, what's the big deal? I've consumed tons of material that said this just as well if not better! What they, and you, fail to realize, is that after the copycats have come in, the pioneer looks outdated. But they are the ones standing on his shoulders, even if, with the benefit of hindsight, they've found more effective ways to spread the same message.
- Wowfunhappy 6y ago
  We used some of his essays in a freshmen writing class in college 7-ish years ago. I had no idea who he was at the time but the essays still made an impression. This was a liberal-arts school and the professor had no particular technology or business background; I’m still not sure how she came across them.
marcell 6y ago
It was a long time ago, but when PG first started writing, nerds into programming were a marginal group, not rulers of the tech world with great influence. His writing resonated with that group at a time when they didn’t seem influential or especially important in society.
- bitexploder 6y ago
  It’s weird. Been programming and in tech since 97. I never felt marginalized, but I didn’t care. I was doing STUFF in tech, always learning. My young mind was aflame. I felt like I was changing the world in the dot com boom/bust. Then I grew up and so did tech apparently.
  - RandoHolmes 6y ago
    The word marginalized gets thrown around too much, it's the wrong word to use. Unpopular would be the better word. We were nerds. Revenge of the Nerds was about people like us: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0088000/ https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0088000/ I know that when I came across an article where Wil Wheaton was complaining about CUPS and how bad printer drivers were in linux I was tickled pink. Over time, as society became more aware of the value this industry brings, it's brought it more mainstream and also brought a lot more people into it (different types of people). But at the time I think the other posters assessment was spot on. Like you, I never cared either, but I also think what they said is true.
    - bitexploder 6y ago
      Yeah, and now, if anything, tech marginalizes its own older work force. Ageism really came home to roost in the dotcom era. The start of VC and startup culture really began to permeate hiring practices
Quekid5 6y ago
The only part of PG's writings I've taken seriously was On Lisp -- which was excellent, TBF! Everything else I was made aware of later was so seriously skewed by Survivor Bias[0] that it wasn't even useful for anyone outside the "world" which he inhabits. I don't place any blame on him personally, it's just that his day-to-day is so removed from anything close to ours that his musings are... irrelevant for the vast majority. [0] I guess? Is there an Absurdly Lucky DotCom Success Bias?
- Abhinav2000 6y ago
  I actually read his ANSI Common Lisp book first, and being a newbie at the time, didn’t have any idea of his immense success. Definitely was very cool to find out that the author of book I read was a billionaire! I’ve heard great things about On Lisp, so will read it when I get to a more advanced level. But honestly I feel like I could write a better ANSI Common Lisp book, it has so many convoluted parts. That said, it was written in the mid 90s so it isn’t correct to judge a book after 20+ years.
  - Quekid5 6y ago
    I'm not sure Common Lisp has evolved very far in the last 20 years, honestly -- that seems to be part of the value proposition, though I don't quite understand it. I do recommend On Lisp for people who want to understand and get a feel for lispy ways to solve problems... but, fair warning: I did already have a very solid grasp of programming in general via C, C++, Python, O'Caml, a little bit of Haskell (at the time) when I read it. So... YMMV. If you want a good book on paradigms in general, I'd recommend something else.
d0m 6y ago
Personally I really enjoy his writings on all kinds of subjects (coding, political, parenthood, startups, etc.) He's the main reason I did a startup and joined YC. I'm still a bit sad I didn't get to talk to him while I was at YC.

justinator 6y ago

Right place, right time, long days.

yodsanklai 6y ago

> he has become too much of a cult figure I didn't know who PG was until recently. I knew he was well respected on HN but I've never found that much value in his blog posts either. Maybe people like his writings in the light of his achievements, rather than for their intrinsic values.

Abhinav2000 6y ago
That’s exactly it. Everybody would dream to have his life and his blogs do give a vivid imagery that makes you feel good and believe you can do the same (plus with YC actually giving some hope). But I’ve learnt a lot more from others, who are not nearly as successful.
- whitepoplar 6y ago
  Who are some of the other people you've learned a great deal from? I'm curious!
  - mastazi 6y ago
    I'm not parent but - it might be people that are close to them IRL and not well known online. Personally, it was like that for me. However unlike parent, I also feel like I get a lot of value from reading PG
dang 6y ago
His essays were what attracted people to YC (and HN) in the first place.
- klanderson 6y ago
  This is true, I bought the "Hackers and Painters" book before discovering HN. Pretty inspiring at the time. This sort of interesting writing seems to have stopped in general. Spolsky and Yegge are other positive examples from that era, which of course is just 10 years ago.
darkerside 6y ago
There are many classic books and movies that people read now and say, what's the big deal? I've consumed tons of material that said this just as well if not better! What they, and you, fail to realize, is that after the copycats have come in, the pioneer looks outdated. But they are the ones standing on his shoulders, even if, with the benefit of hindsight, they've found more effective ways to spread the same message.
Wowfunhappy 6y ago
We used some of his essays in a freshmen writing class in college 7-ish years ago. I had no idea who he was at the time but the essays still made an impression. This was a liberal-arts school and the professor had no particular technology or business background; I’m still not sure how she came across them.

marcell 6y ago

It was a long time ago, but when PG first started writing, nerds into programming were a marginal group, not rulers of the tech world with great influence. His writing resonated with that group at a time when they didn’t seem influential or especially important in society.

bitexploder 6y ago
It’s weird. Been programming and in tech since 97. I never felt marginalized, but I didn’t care. I was doing STUFF in tech, always learning. My young mind was aflame. I felt like I was changing the world in the dot com boom/bust. Then I grew up and so did tech apparently.
- RandoHolmes 6y ago
  The word marginalized gets thrown around too much, it's the wrong word to use. Unpopular would be the better word. We were nerds. Revenge of the Nerds was about people like us: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0088000/ https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0088000/ I know that when I came across an article where Wil Wheaton was complaining about CUPS and how bad printer drivers were in linux I was tickled pink. Over time, as society became more aware of the value this industry brings, it's brought it more mainstream and also brought a lot more people into it (different types of people). But at the time I think the other posters assessment was spot on. Like you, I never cared either, but I also think what they said is true.
  - bitexploder 6y ago
    Yeah, and now, if anything, tech marginalizes its own older work force. Ageism really came home to roost in the dotcom era. The start of VC and startup culture really began to permeate hiring practices

Quekid5 6y ago

The only part of PG's writings I've taken seriously was On Lisp -- which was excellent, TBF! Everything else I was made aware of later was so seriously skewed by Survivor Bias[0] that it wasn't even useful for anyone outside the "world" which he inhabits. I don't place any blame on him personally, it's just that his day-to-day is so removed from anything close to ours that his musings are... irrelevant for the vast majority. [0] I guess? Is there an Absurdly Lucky DotCom Success Bias?

Abhinav2000 6y ago
I actually read his ANSI Common Lisp book first, and being a newbie at the time, didn’t have any idea of his immense success. Definitely was very cool to find out that the author of book I read was a billionaire! I’ve heard great things about On Lisp, so will read it when I get to a more advanced level. But honestly I feel like I could write a better ANSI Common Lisp book, it has so many convoluted parts. That said, it was written in the mid 90s so it isn’t correct to judge a book after 20+ years.
- Quekid5 6y ago
  I'm not sure Common Lisp has evolved very far in the last 20 years, honestly -- that seems to be part of the value proposition, though I don't quite understand it. I do recommend On Lisp for people who want to understand and get a feel for lispy ways to solve problems... but, fair warning: I did already have a very solid grasp of programming in general via C, C++, Python, O'Caml, a little bit of Haskell (at the time) when I read it. So... YMMV. If you want a good book on paradigms in general, I'd recommend something else.

d0m 6y ago

Personally I really enjoy his writings on all kinds of subjects (coding, political, parenthood, startups, etc.) He's the main reason I did a startup and joined YC. I'm still a bit sad I didn't get to talk to him while I was at YC.