5 ms·

The only native experience of the Web and HTML5 today is on Windows 7 with IE9. I'm leery of the word "native" in this context. It strikes me as a marketing p

by pohl 16y ago

The only native experience of the Web and HTML5 today is on Windows 7 with IE9. I'm leery of the word "native" in this context. It strikes me as a marketing phrase with little or no actual meaning. They're trying to sell me on the idea that my HTML5 experience will somehow be better because it uses code provided by Windows itself rather than by some intermediary library. But what is that windows code, if not a library of code?

Kudos 16y ago
Yeah, it sounds like they're trying to hijack the term to give the impression that other browsers are somehow not "native." Did IE9 not have "native" HTML5, or is it just that marketing only came up with the idea now?
- devtesla 16y ago
  Fear, uncertainty, and doubt. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fear,_uncertainty_and_doubt http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fear,_uncertainty_and_doubt
- contextfree 16y ago
  They used the same messaging with IE9.
- ryannielsen 16y ago
  Please read the post. Direct quote: > IE9 delivers native support for HTML5 on Windows. Another direct quote: > Native HTML5 support in Windows with IE9 makes a huge difference in what sites can do. And another: > The only native experience of the Web and HTML5 today is on Windows 7 with IE9.
  - derefr 16y ago
    The first two quotes give me more of a sense of "IE9 brings HTML5 support to your native apps, by installing a new version of the MSHTML web control."
- experimental 16y ago
  In the sense of using the platforms' libraries and APIs, then Chrome is not native (especially some of the UI as Javascript is not native in any sense) because it comes bundled with its own runtime as well as the WebKit runtime. But in terms of systems languages they are using yes that is native.
natesm 16y ago
And, if that's their criteria for a web browser being "good", how would Safari on Mac OS X also not qualify?
- brudgers 16y ago
  Webkit?
  - othermaciej 16y ago
    WebKit ships with the OS, just like IE's MSHTML/Trident engine. Does being open source make it less "native" somehow?
    - brudgers 16y ago
      The argument that webkit is not native because it is open source is a plausible reason to exclude Safari - hence "webkit?" rather than "webkit!" In my opinion, claims about nativeness are on a par with those about magicalness - but marketing flacks don't get paid based upon sound ontology.
deleted 16y ago
[deleted]
HardyLeung 16y ago
I think it is a brilliant marketing term. yes they hijack the term "native" but if in fact they can deliver, it will be a clear differentiator in users' mind, like this: IE10 = native = fast Chrome = not native = slow Simple message, and it works IMHO. I'm watching MIX'11 live and so far the demos are great (like the fishbowl benchmark, completely blowing Chrome's fish out of the water ;D) but they are still just demos.
- GrandMasterBirt 16y ago
  Its so native to win vista/7 that it does not support windows xp which Opera/Firefox/Chrome ALL support WITH their performance improvements AND they've done so while staying ahead of IE9. I guess if that's native, yes IE9 wins. I think in user's minds: if its built for MY operating system specifically its better than the other. However thats not true as even the tech unsavvy are flocking away from IE. HOWEVER. I am glad to hear this news. It only means one thing. PROGRESS.
- chc 16y ago
  It's a "brilliant marketing term" in the same way that any falsehood is. Other IEs have also been "native" in that way, yet they are dog slow, so "native = fast" is clearly wrong. "IE10 = fast" would skip the lie and seems like just as good a differentiator.
  - rictic 16y ago
    True, but "fast" is a crowded concept in people's minds. If you look around the web you'll read that Firefox 4 is fast, Chrome is fast, Opera is fast. IE is "native" which is then connected with performance claims. It's a new name for an old feature that has a kernel of truth to back it up. I'm reminded of an early scene in Mad Men where a salesman convinces a cigarette company to advertise their tobacco as "toasted". Sure, so is everyone else's, but that doesn't mean that one company can't own that idea in the minds of the public. A similar thing thing with the IE blog's new favorite phrase "same markup" which seems to be "standards compliant" in a new blue dress. Search the web for 'standards compliant browser' and you'll generally find folks heaping scorn on IE and praise on all the others. Search for 'same markup browser' and the opposite is true.
contextfree 16y ago
I suspect their messaging is driven by internal politics as much as it is by external marketing imperatives. "We are a vital, integral part of Windows and should therefore be heavily funded".
Groxx 16y ago
I think "native" means they can leave supporting new features everyone else has had for years until a new version of the OS comes out, rather than being bound by this silly "upgradeable" thing.
Me1000 16y ago
HTML5 has become a marketing term, it's not so surprising that Microsoft needs to differentiate themselves with their late jump on that bandwagon.
yuhong 16y ago
Yea, I know MS is the most non PR2.0 compliant browser vendor for a while now.

by pohl 16y ago

Kudos 16y ago

Yeah, it sounds like they're trying to hijack the term to give the impression that other browsers are somehow not "native." Did IE9 not have "native" HTML5, or is it just that marketing only came up with the idea now?

devtesla 16y ago
Fear, uncertainty, and doubt. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fear,_uncertainty_and_doubt http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fear,_uncertainty_and_doubt
contextfree 16y ago
They used the same messaging with IE9.
ryannielsen 16y ago
Please read the post. Direct quote: > IE9 delivers native support for HTML5 on Windows. Another direct quote: > Native HTML5 support in Windows with IE9 makes a huge difference in what sites can do. And another: > The only native experience of the Web and HTML5 today is on Windows 7 with IE9.
- derefr 16y ago
  The first two quotes give me more of a sense of "IE9 brings HTML5 support to your native apps, by installing a new version of the MSHTML web control."
experimental 16y ago
In the sense of using the platforms' libraries and APIs, then Chrome is not native (especially some of the UI as Javascript is not native in any sense) because it comes bundled with its own runtime as well as the WebKit runtime. But in terms of systems languages they are using yes that is native.

natesm 16y ago

And, if that's their criteria for a web browser being "good", how would Safari on Mac OS X also not qualify?

brudgers 16y ago
Webkit?
- othermaciej 16y ago
  WebKit ships with the OS, just like IE's MSHTML/Trident engine. Does being open source make it less "native" somehow?
  - brudgers 16y ago
    The argument that webkit is not native because it is open source is a plausible reason to exclude Safari - hence "webkit?" rather than "webkit!" In my opinion, claims about nativeness are on a par with those about magicalness - but marketing flacks don't get paid based upon sound ontology.

deleted 16y ago

[deleted]

HardyLeung 16y ago

I think it is a brilliant marketing term. yes they hijack the term "native" but if in fact they can deliver, it will be a clear differentiator in users' mind, like this: IE10 = native = fast Chrome = not native = slow Simple message, and it works IMHO. I'm watching MIX'11 live and so far the demos are great (like the fishbowl benchmark, completely blowing Chrome's fish out of the water ;D) but they are still just demos.

GrandMasterBirt 16y ago
Its so native to win vista/7 that it does not support windows xp which Opera/Firefox/Chrome ALL support WITH their performance improvements AND they've done so while staying ahead of IE9. I guess if that's native, yes IE9 wins. I think in user's minds: if its built for MY operating system specifically its better than the other. However thats not true as even the tech unsavvy are flocking away from IE. HOWEVER. I am glad to hear this news. It only means one thing. PROGRESS.
chc 16y ago
It's a "brilliant marketing term" in the same way that any falsehood is. Other IEs have also been "native" in that way, yet they are dog slow, so "native = fast" is clearly wrong. "IE10 = fast" would skip the lie and seems like just as good a differentiator.
- rictic 16y ago
  True, but "fast" is a crowded concept in people's minds. If you look around the web you'll read that Firefox 4 is fast, Chrome is fast, Opera is fast. IE is "native" which is then connected with performance claims. It's a new name for an old feature that has a kernel of truth to back it up. I'm reminded of an early scene in Mad Men where a salesman convinces a cigarette company to advertise their tobacco as "toasted". Sure, so is everyone else's, but that doesn't mean that one company can't own that idea in the minds of the public. A similar thing thing with the IE blog's new favorite phrase "same markup" which seems to be "standards compliant" in a new blue dress. Search the web for 'standards compliant browser' and you'll generally find folks heaping scorn on IE and praise on all the others. Search for 'same markup browser' and the opposite is true.

contextfree 16y ago

I suspect their messaging is driven by internal politics as much as it is by external marketing imperatives. "We are a vital, integral part of Windows and should therefore be heavily funded".

Groxx 16y ago

I think "native" means they can leave supporting new features everyone else has had for years until a new version of the OS comes out, rather than being bound by this silly "upgradeable" thing.

Me1000 16y ago

HTML5 has become a marketing term, it's not so surprising that Microsoft needs to differentiate themselves with their late jump on that bandwagon.

yuhong 16y ago

Yea, I know MS is the most non PR2.0 compliant browser vendor for a while now.