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I have a hard time coming to terms with the dichotomy between drivers saying they used to be able to make a lot of money before Uber and riders saying that gett

by lhorie 6y ago

I have a hard time coming to terms with the dichotomy between drivers saying they used to be able to make a lot of money before Uber and riders saying that getting a cab then was a nightmare if they even managed to get one. Another thing that bugs me is quotes like this: > While Uber cries out that having to follow the law would hurt its business model, Uber’s leadership curiously neglects to mention the billions of dollars in cash reserves it has told investors it has available or the generous compensation packages offered to its executives Do people not bother to do math anymore? How much do they think these "billions of dollars" would yield in terms of ongoing driver income, had it somehow been distributed evenly (even at the cost of feasibility)?

novok 6y ago
I'm sad to say, but the kind of person who chooses to be a full time Uber driver probably doesn't have a lot of better options, and math & diving into economic history beyond their personal situation is probably not their strong suite.
- lhorie 6y ago
  The thing is that I've seen this rhetoric also come from e.g. college students (about income tax from the top 1%), among others. I mean, I get that wealth inequalities are disparate and that everyone wants more of nice things. It just makes it harder to sympathize with someone's cause when their line of argumentation boils down to "to solve the problem, just give me more money". I want more money too, get in line!
tarr11 6y ago
Things also weren't that great for drivers before Uber became ubiquitous. https://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/23/nyregion/new-york-taxi-drivers-unsure-they-will-see-benefits-of-a-fare-hike.html https://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/23/nyregion/new-york-taxi-dr...
sjtindell 6y ago
It’s easy for me as a tech worker (safe) to point it out, but there’s been a gigantic shift to “woe is me” economics in the last 5-10 years. Inequality, wage gaps, slow wage growth, these statistics have spread and UBI support, etc. are accelerating. I honestly believe the technology sector has had something to do with it. All the $8 an hour workers are tired of seeing some 20 something on the cover of Forbes after what (they imagine) was just a few hours of coding a silly flapping bird app. They also have no conception of net worth vs. liquid cash. Their obsession over the Bezos bank account leads to increasingly ignorant statements like “he could just spend the whole $100 billion and end world hunger!”. It’s evidenced in statements like this about Uber’s cash. No mention of the fact that they lose nearly a billion, with a B, dollars every single quarter. The extremely competitive market they are in for talent leading to those pay packages. Similar to the discussions around rent control in my opinion, there’s very little substance. If you dig, it comes down to a simple truth - the prices are too high for me, I want them lower. That person has too much money, I want it.
- kazen44 6y ago
  which in the end comes down to the fact that wealth distribution is very lobsided compared to two or three decades ago. People decry for this mainly because it is very hard, if not impossible for many people to gather more wealth.
  - sjtindell 6y ago
    True. My comment really doesn’t acknowledge that growing inequality is actually a problem. I guess there’s one aspect I see that I’m roasting a bit.
- content_sesh 6y ago
  Conversely, I feel like I keep seeing "woe is me" whining from corporations when there are calls for them to maintain even the barest pretense of responsibility to their employees. I've lived in both CA and MA and both states have rolled out gradual increases in minimum wage, with employers gnashing their teeth all the way and claiming they'll be ruined and need to start huge rounds of layoffs. There has been a growing gap for decades now between productivity and real wages https://www.epi.org/productivity-pay-gap/ https://www.epi.org/productivity-pay-gap/ It is only rational for the people being left behind - often the ones doing the labor that generates all this value - to demand their fair share

by lhorie 6y ago

novok 6y ago

I'm sad to say, but the kind of person who chooses to be a full time Uber driver probably doesn't have a lot of better options, and math & diving into economic history beyond their personal situation is probably not their strong suite.

lhorie 6y ago
The thing is that I've seen this rhetoric also come from e.g. college students (about income tax from the top 1%), among others. I mean, I get that wealth inequalities are disparate and that everyone wants more of nice things. It just makes it harder to sympathize with someone's cause when their line of argumentation boils down to "to solve the problem, just give me more money". I want more money too, get in line!

tarr11 6y ago

Things also weren't that great for drivers before Uber became ubiquitous. https://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/23/nyregion/new-york-taxi-drivers-unsure-they-will-see-benefits-of-a-fare-hike.html https://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/23/nyregion/new-york-taxi-dr...

sjtindell 6y ago

It’s easy for me as a tech worker (safe) to point it out, but there’s been a gigantic shift to “woe is me” economics in the last 5-10 years. Inequality, wage gaps, slow wage growth, these statistics have spread and UBI support, etc. are accelerating. I honestly believe the technology sector has had something to do with it. All the $8 an hour workers are tired of seeing some 20 something on the cover of Forbes after what (they imagine) was just a few hours of coding a silly flapping bird app. They also have no conception of net worth vs. liquid cash. Their obsession over the Bezos bank account leads to increasingly ignorant statements like “he could just spend the whole $100 billion and end world hunger!”. It’s evidenced in statements like this about Uber’s cash. No mention of the fact that they lose nearly a billion, with a B, dollars every single quarter. The extremely competitive market they are in for talent leading to those pay packages. Similar to the discussions around rent control in my opinion, there’s very little substance. If you dig, it comes down to a simple truth - the prices are too high for me, I want them lower. That person has too much money, I want it.

kazen44 6y ago
which in the end comes down to the fact that wealth distribution is very lobsided compared to two or three decades ago. People decry for this mainly because it is very hard, if not impossible for many people to gather more wealth.
- sjtindell 6y ago
  True. My comment really doesn’t acknowledge that growing inequality is actually a problem. I guess there’s one aspect I see that I’m roasting a bit.
content_sesh 6y ago
Conversely, I feel like I keep seeing "woe is me" whining from corporations when there are calls for them to maintain even the barest pretense of responsibility to their employees. I've lived in both CA and MA and both states have rolled out gradual increases in minimum wage, with employers gnashing their teeth all the way and claiming they'll be ruined and need to start huge rounds of layoffs. There has been a growing gap for decades now between productivity and real wages https://www.epi.org/productivity-pay-gap/ https://www.epi.org/productivity-pay-gap/ It is only rational for the people being left behind - often the ones doing the labor that generates all this value - to demand their fair share