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The ban isn't about the sale of oculus quest. It's about all oculus devices. Facebook said all oculus devices would need a facebook account. I know this statem

The ban isn't about the sale of oculus quest. It's about all oculus devices. Facebook said all oculus devices would need a facebook account. I know this statement is overly broad and not (exactly) true but this is the nightmare scenario oculus users are dreading. Facebook said there were caveats and exceptions. For example, if you bought it before date x then you don't need to create a facebook account, etc... The german privacy commission isn't convinced facebook would/could separate the purely oculus created facebook accounts from their normal accounts. Now it becomes a coupling issue. Apparently it's illegal in Germany and I know this is illegal in Belgium. And if I took a guess it would be illegal in most countries in the EU.

lmkg 6y ago
It violates GDPR, so it's illegal in the EU in general (plus UK & Switzerland). The relevant parts are Article 7 Paragraph 4, and Recital 43. In short, consent isn't valid if it's a condition for an unrelated contract. https://gdpr-info.eu/art-7-gdpr/ https://gdpr-info.eu/art-7-gdpr/ https://gdpr-info.eu/recitals/no-43/ https://gdpr-info.eu/recitals/no-43/
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- vinay427 6y ago
  EDIT: Maybe this wasn't clear, but I was replying specifically to this part in the parent comment: "violates GDPR, so it's illegal in the EU in general (plus UK & Switzerland)" as GDPR never specifically applied in Switzerland. I'm not sure it applies to Switzerland. GDPR at least doesn't seem to apply to Swiss companies catering to Swiss residents [1], so I'm not sure it would apply to Facebook/Oculus here. Also, if we're going for completeness EU/EEA is included as far as I know, not just EU. [1] https://www.pwc.ch/en/insights/tax/gdpr-swiss-based-companies.html https://www.pwc.ch/en/insights/tax/gdpr-swiss-based-companie...
  - baby 6y ago
    switzerland is not in EU
    - vinay427 6y ago
      Yes, I live in Switzerland and am well aware. I was replying to the parent comment.
    - IfOnlyYouKnew 6y ago
      It is, however, member of EFTA, the Single Market Agreement, Schengen, and the European Conference for the Protection of Spotted Eels (but not the Customs Union, nor EEA). It also has a host of individual agreements to participate in Bologna and the like. As a result, any given EU regulation, especially of the economy, is more likely than not to also apply to Switzerland.
  - dathinab 6y ago
    Well maybe they have similar regulations. So well it's a bit strange. Through GDPR applies to any company selling to the EU, the fact that you can easily travel to Switzerland to buy a product due to more or less open borders and import it to the EU can matter in some cases. So to be "safe" I wouldn't be surprised if they would need to put geo-fencing in to be on the safe site. Due to Facebook repeatedly intentionally breaching or trying to undermine EU (and member states) laws and regulations (because the penalties are lower then their profit) there isn't really much (any?) good-will left with the local and EU law keepers (except in Ireland, because money) . So there is a good chance law keepers won't give FB any flex when FB is trying to sell a physical product, a think for which there are much more regulations then for FB itself (like health&safety, proper advertisement etc.). For example they will very likely need to put a clear readable "requires internet","requires a FB account" to be used note on their boxes (and internet sale descriptions). Because a large degree of the usability is restricted without a FB account. Which is something I believe FB doesn't like at all ;=)
  - lmkg 6y ago
    This is a bit late. For most people this is a footnote, but for you it actually matters. The UK passed (implemented?) GDPR as a law while it was in the EU, and will retain that law after it leaves the EU. However, its interpretation of GDPR will be allowed to diverge. For one thing, the court case "Schrems II" is from an EU case post-Brexit, so it is not binding on the UK's interpretation of GDPR. This is going to be a pain point for the UK as it attempts to maintain data flows with the EU. I overstated and got confused about Switzerland's relationship to GDPR. I for some reason thought they signed a treaty with the EU had materially similar terms as GDPR. It seems what's actually in effect is an Adequacy Decision, where the EU recognizes Switzerland's data protection laws as being "good enough" that all data transfers to Switzerland don't need extra protections. Part of my confusion is that Switzerland also recognizes the US Privacy Shield framework, along with the EU and UK. So there's EU-Privacy Shield (dead), UK-Privacy Shield, Swiss-Privacy Shield, EU-GDPR, and UK-GDPR. I had thought there was also Swiss-GDPR, but there is not.
- deleted 6y ago
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dathinab 6y ago
Wasn't there also the think that the German Monopoly commission allowed the merge (in the German marked) only under certain conditions/guarantees Facebook had to gave which the change to require Facebook for anything close to full usage of an Oculus VR headset violates? It's also not the first time that Facebook told (legally binding) the monopoly one thing and then did another thing being like "Uh we give a shit about German and Eu law the penalties are to small". Then there is GDPR. So I wouldn't be surprised if it's partially because they have problems with putting up a "user contract" which isn't blown up directly into their face. Which allows them to (try to) wriggle out of constraints. Honestly while some EU countries still back FB (because profit) in many countries FB has lost all/most patience and goodwill from the law keepers. Also fun side note as far as I know FB also promised the founder of Oculus that they would not do exactly that (require a FB account for social features). Sure it's not legally binding but just another of a very large pill of anecdotes about how FB can not be trusted at all and given Marks role in it you can pretty much extend that to him to, which IMHO isn't surprising if you look into the (early) history of FB... EDIT: Formulation/Spelling.
- 363638273 6y ago
  I don't think it's a matter of penalties being light really, if the EU hits too hard it'll just turn into a trade dispute. I think the much more likely attitude is "what are they going to do, build something better?" which isn't really an unfair mindset given germany, and more broadly Europe's, dismal history with competing at this kind of stuff.
arwineap 6y ago
> For example, if you bought it before date x then you don't need to create a facebook account, etc... They let you use the device, but you cannot accept friend invites, even from other people "grandfathered" in A little frustrating to say the least.

lmkg 6y ago

It violates GDPR, so it's illegal in the EU in general (plus UK & Switzerland). The relevant parts are Article 7 Paragraph 4, and Recital 43. In short, consent isn't valid if it's a condition for an unrelated contract. https://gdpr-info.eu/art-7-gdpr/ https://gdpr-info.eu/art-7-gdpr/ https://gdpr-info.eu/recitals/no-43/ https://gdpr-info.eu/recitals/no-43/

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
vinay427 6y ago
EDIT: Maybe this wasn't clear, but I was replying specifically to this part in the parent comment: "violates GDPR, so it's illegal in the EU in general (plus UK & Switzerland)" as GDPR never specifically applied in Switzerland. I'm not sure it applies to Switzerland. GDPR at least doesn't seem to apply to Swiss companies catering to Swiss residents [1], so I'm not sure it would apply to Facebook/Oculus here. Also, if we're going for completeness EU/EEA is included as far as I know, not just EU. [1] https://www.pwc.ch/en/insights/tax/gdpr-swiss-based-companies.html https://www.pwc.ch/en/insights/tax/gdpr-swiss-based-companie...
- baby 6y ago
  switzerland is not in EU
  - vinay427 6y ago
    Yes, I live in Switzerland and am well aware. I was replying to the parent comment.
  - IfOnlyYouKnew 6y ago
    It is, however, member of EFTA, the Single Market Agreement, Schengen, and the European Conference for the Protection of Spotted Eels (but not the Customs Union, nor EEA). It also has a host of individual agreements to participate in Bologna and the like. As a result, any given EU regulation, especially of the economy, is more likely than not to also apply to Switzerland.
- dathinab 6y ago
  Well maybe they have similar regulations. So well it's a bit strange. Through GDPR applies to any company selling to the EU, the fact that you can easily travel to Switzerland to buy a product due to more or less open borders and import it to the EU can matter in some cases. So to be "safe" I wouldn't be surprised if they would need to put geo-fencing in to be on the safe site. Due to Facebook repeatedly intentionally breaching or trying to undermine EU (and member states) laws and regulations (because the penalties are lower then their profit) there isn't really much (any?) good-will left with the local and EU law keepers (except in Ireland, because money) . So there is a good chance law keepers won't give FB any flex when FB is trying to sell a physical product, a think for which there are much more regulations then for FB itself (like health&safety, proper advertisement etc.). For example they will very likely need to put a clear readable "requires internet","requires a FB account" to be used note on their boxes (and internet sale descriptions). Because a large degree of the usability is restricted without a FB account. Which is something I believe FB doesn't like at all ;=)
- lmkg 6y ago
  This is a bit late. For most people this is a footnote, but for you it actually matters. The UK passed (implemented?) GDPR as a law while it was in the EU, and will retain that law after it leaves the EU. However, its interpretation of GDPR will be allowed to diverge. For one thing, the court case "Schrems II" is from an EU case post-Brexit, so it is not binding on the UK's interpretation of GDPR. This is going to be a pain point for the UK as it attempts to maintain data flows with the EU. I overstated and got confused about Switzerland's relationship to GDPR. I for some reason thought they signed a treaty with the EU had materially similar terms as GDPR. It seems what's actually in effect is an Adequacy Decision, where the EU recognizes Switzerland's data protection laws as being "good enough" that all data transfers to Switzerland don't need extra protections. Part of my confusion is that Switzerland also recognizes the US Privacy Shield framework, along with the EU and UK. So there's EU-Privacy Shield (dead), UK-Privacy Shield, Swiss-Privacy Shield, EU-GDPR, and UK-GDPR. I had thought there was also Swiss-GDPR, but there is not.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

dathinab 6y ago

Wasn't there also the think that the German Monopoly commission allowed the merge (in the German marked) only under certain conditions/guarantees Facebook had to gave which the change to require Facebook for anything close to full usage of an Oculus VR headset violates? It's also not the first time that Facebook told (legally binding) the monopoly one thing and then did another thing being like "Uh we give a shit about German and Eu law the penalties are to small". Then there is GDPR. So I wouldn't be surprised if it's partially because they have problems with putting up a "user contract" which isn't blown up directly into their face. Which allows them to (try to) wriggle out of constraints. Honestly while some EU countries still back FB (because profit) in many countries FB has lost all/most patience and goodwill from the law keepers. Also fun side note as far as I know FB also promised the founder of Oculus that they would not do exactly that (require a FB account for social features). Sure it's not legally binding but just another of a very large pill of anecdotes about how FB can not be trusted at all and given Marks role in it you can pretty much extend that to him to, which IMHO isn't surprising if you look into the (early) history of FB... EDIT: Formulation/Spelling.

363638273 6y ago
I don't think it's a matter of penalties being light really, if the EU hits too hard it'll just turn into a trade dispute. I think the much more likely attitude is "what are they going to do, build something better?" which isn't really an unfair mindset given germany, and more broadly Europe's, dismal history with competing at this kind of stuff.

arwineap 6y ago

> For example, if you bought it before date x then you don't need to create a facebook account, etc... They let you use the device, but you cannot accept friend invites, even from other people "grandfathered" in A little frustrating to say the least.