3 ms·

I understand the licensing issues, but having a system with 4 components (ext4, dm-crypt, mdraid, dm-integrity) instead of a single integrated one (ZFS) can har

by fmajid 6y ago

I understand the licensing issues, but having a system with 4 components (ext4, dm-crypt, mdraid, dm-integrity) instead of a single integrated one (ZFS) can hardly be said to be simpler. On a distribution like Ubuntu, adding and maintaining ZFS is completely painless.

throw0101a 6y ago
> On a distribution like Ubuntu, adding and maintaining ZFS is completely painless. There are packages for most distros (they generally leverage DKMS): * https://zfsonlinux.org https://zfsonlinux.org
- oarsinsync 6y ago
  > > On a distribution like Ubuntu, adding and maintaining ZFS is completely painless. > There are packages for most distros (they generally leverage DKMS): As a Debian user using ZFS, I can assure you that it's absolutely not painless. Definitely worth the pain, however. (Same story with Wireguard + Debian currently too) Ubuntu actually ships ZFS (and Wireguard) in their main line. Debian (and others that depend on DKMS) do not.
throw0101a 6y ago
> I understand the licensing issues, but having a system with 4 components […] I am reminded of ZFS co-creator Jeff Bonwick's "Rampant Layering Violation?" (then-Sun) weblog post: * https://web.archive.org/web/20070508214221/http://blogs.sun.com/bonwick/entry/rampant_layering_violation https://web.archive.org/web/20070508214221/http://blogs.sun.... * https://blogs.oracle.com/bonwick/rampant-layering-violation https://blogs.oracle.com/bonwick/rampant-layering-violation
- nix23 6y ago
  Sometimes A monolith is "better" than the "Unix-way", think of kernels, network-stack and Filesystems (Btrfs,ZFS) and databases.
  - throw0101a 6y ago
    Well, ZFS isn't exactly monolithic if you look under the hood: it has the ZPL (files, directories), DMU (objects, transactions on those objects), SPA (actual disk I/O). A potato-quality video from 2008 with Moore and Bonwick, the creators (timestamped to relevant section): * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NRoUC9P1PmA&t=14m19s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NRoUC9P1PmA&t=14m19s
    - magicalhippo 6y ago
      Possibly less potato-quality video about the same: https://youtu.be/MsY-BafQgj4?t=442 https://youtu.be/MsY-BafQgj4?t=442 (OpenZFS Basics by Matt Ahrens and George Wilson)
    - nix23 6y ago
      >Well, ZFS isn't exactly monolithic if you look under the hood: it has the ZPL True, but i meant one monolithic Storage-System. Kernel's are also not monolithic if you look under the hood.
pnutjam 6y ago
You mean BTRFS... ;)

by fmajid 6y ago

throw0101a 6y ago

> On a distribution like Ubuntu, adding and maintaining ZFS is completely painless. There are packages for most distros (they generally leverage DKMS): * https://zfsonlinux.org https://zfsonlinux.org

oarsinsync 6y ago
> > On a distribution like Ubuntu, adding and maintaining ZFS is completely painless. > There are packages for most distros (they generally leverage DKMS): As a Debian user using ZFS, I can assure you that it's absolutely not painless. Definitely worth the pain, however. (Same story with Wireguard + Debian currently too) Ubuntu actually ships ZFS (and Wireguard) in their main line. Debian (and others that depend on DKMS) do not.

throw0101a 6y ago

> I understand the licensing issues, but having a system with 4 components […] I am reminded of ZFS co-creator Jeff Bonwick's "Rampant Layering Violation?" (then-Sun) weblog post: * https://web.archive.org/web/20070508214221/http://blogs.sun.com/bonwick/entry/rampant_layering_violation https://web.archive.org/web/20070508214221/http://blogs.sun.... * https://blogs.oracle.com/bonwick/rampant-layering-violation https://blogs.oracle.com/bonwick/rampant-layering-violation

nix23 6y ago
Sometimes A monolith is "better" than the "Unix-way", think of kernels, network-stack and Filesystems (Btrfs,ZFS) and databases.
- throw0101a 6y ago
  Well, ZFS isn't exactly monolithic if you look under the hood: it has the ZPL (files, directories), DMU (objects, transactions on those objects), SPA (actual disk I/O). A potato-quality video from 2008 with Moore and Bonwick, the creators (timestamped to relevant section): * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NRoUC9P1PmA&t=14m19s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NRoUC9P1PmA&t=14m19s
  - magicalhippo 6y ago
    Possibly less potato-quality video about the same: https://youtu.be/MsY-BafQgj4?t=442 https://youtu.be/MsY-BafQgj4?t=442 (OpenZFS Basics by Matt Ahrens and George Wilson)
  - nix23 6y ago
    >Well, ZFS isn't exactly monolithic if you look under the hood: it has the ZPL True, but i meant one monolithic Storage-System. Kernel's are also not monolithic if you look under the hood.

pnutjam 6y ago

You mean BTRFS... ;)