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Yes, and there is also now proof of sabotage by the right of the Labour party specifically in order to create the narrative you are repeating. "The 860-page do

Yes, and there is also now proof of sabotage by the right of the Labour party specifically in order to create the narrative you are repeating. "The 860-page document claims that “an abnormal intensity of factional opposition to the party leader” had “inhibited the proper functioning of the Labour Party bureaucracy” and contributed to “a litany of mistakes” in dealing with antisemitism, which it admits was a serious problem in the party." https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-leak-report-corbyn-election-whatsapp-antisemitism-tories-yougov-poll-a9462456.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-leak-r... Meanwhile, the Tory party gets a free pass on their rampant Antisemitism and stoking hatred of immigrants.

mft_ 6y ago
Whether or not the draft dossier of uncertain providence is all legit, I agree it looks like Labour’s issues ran deep. However, I’d still argue there’s an issue around Corbyn’s leadership. You’re the leader of Labour; your party is being criticised in very damaging ways and (for the sake of argument) it’s because your internal processes are being sabotaged. What do you do? Maybe... look into it? Fix it? Change the people responsible if that’s what it takes? At best, it was weak leadership. At worst, it was a reluctance to discipline political allies.
- s0l1dsnak3123 6y ago
  The Labour leaks prove that Labour did try to fix it - Corbyn should've booted all the neo-liberals out of his party via mandatory reselections. Unfortunately, he's too decent to play dirty - but that's what's needed right now. I think it's pretty clear that Rachel Reeves, Ian Austin et al are not allies when they are funnelling money and faking ad spend, and leaking lies to the press specifically to stop labour from winning. (I'm not referring to all claims of antisemitism here as lies by the way, but many of the stories that broke in the Guardian were later redacted as bunk)
  - cynicalkane 6y ago
    I hate this sort of defense-by-attack. Corbyn needed to defend Labor from anti-semitism by... eliminating neoliberals? How about by eliminating anti-semites? It's like, what are the priorities here?
    - s0l1dsnak3123 6y ago
      That’s a very cynical way to interpret what I said. I was responding to Corbyn being defined as weak and of the PR mess that was exasperated by saboteurs, not providing a solution to the real problem of antisemitism. We’re not talking about a ranked value system here, we’re talking about an organisation that can do multiple things at the same time.
      - cynicalkane 6y ago
        No. The "real solution" is to oppose anti-semitism with all due expediency. I don't care if it was exasperated by "saboteurs". If Corbyn can't adopt this basic moral position that all humans ought to adopt, I don't care to hear any excuses at all.
        s0l1dsnak3123 6y ago
        A straw man. It wasn’t exposed by saboteurs. It was exaggerated with false news stories to add to the legitimate and real concern and to keep the story in the news. The antisemitism is real. So is the outrage about how labour staffers conspired to destroy Labours electoral success. Your blindness to this obvious point is very revealing. Edit: you seemed to have silently edited your comment to change your argument, so I’ll do the same: > No. The "real solution" is to oppose anti-semitism with all due expediency. And the labour leaks show that a faction of the party was purposefully undermining labours ability to do this against the wishes of the leadership. Do you accept this? > I don't care if it was exasperated by "saboteurs". If Corbyn can't adopt this basic moral position that all humans ought to adopt, I don't care to hear any excuses at all. That makes no sense: are you really arguing that Corbyn’s political enemies’ actions lead you to hate Corbyn’s moral position, even when it ostensibly matches your own? Maybe you should have another think before you reply
frabbit 6y ago
Don't forget the use of Facebook micro-targetted ads to attempt to trick Corbyn into believing that his own party machinery was putting out the message that it was supposed to be: https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/labour-hq-used-facebook-ads-to-deceive-jeremy-corbyn-during-election-campaign-grlx75c27 https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/labour-hq-used-facebook-a... The centrist and right-wing of the Labour party have a lot to answer for and have clearly displayed that they will stick at nothing to ensure that: * There is no Green New Deal and the climate crisis is going to happen * Power remains in the hands of few incompetent fail sons and their sociopathic remoras.

mft_ 6y ago

Whether or not the draft dossier of uncertain providence is all legit, I agree it looks like Labour’s issues ran deep. However, I’d still argue there’s an issue around Corbyn’s leadership. You’re the leader of Labour; your party is being criticised in very damaging ways and (for the sake of argument) it’s because your internal processes are being sabotaged. What do you do? Maybe... look into it? Fix it? Change the people responsible if that’s what it takes? At best, it was weak leadership. At worst, it was a reluctance to discipline political allies.

s0l1dsnak3123 6y ago
The Labour leaks prove that Labour did try to fix it - Corbyn should've booted all the neo-liberals out of his party via mandatory reselections. Unfortunately, he's too decent to play dirty - but that's what's needed right now. I think it's pretty clear that Rachel Reeves, Ian Austin et al are not allies when they are funnelling money and faking ad spend, and leaking lies to the press specifically to stop labour from winning. (I'm not referring to all claims of antisemitism here as lies by the way, but many of the stories that broke in the Guardian were later redacted as bunk)
- cynicalkane 6y ago
  I hate this sort of defense-by-attack. Corbyn needed to defend Labor from anti-semitism by... eliminating neoliberals? How about by eliminating anti-semites? It's like, what are the priorities here?
  - s0l1dsnak3123 6y ago
    That’s a very cynical way to interpret what I said. I was responding to Corbyn being defined as weak and of the PR mess that was exasperated by saboteurs, not providing a solution to the real problem of antisemitism. We’re not talking about a ranked value system here, we’re talking about an organisation that can do multiple things at the same time.
    - cynicalkane 6y ago
      No. The "real solution" is to oppose anti-semitism with all due expediency. I don't care if it was exasperated by "saboteurs". If Corbyn can't adopt this basic moral position that all humans ought to adopt, I don't care to hear any excuses at all.
      - s0l1dsnak3123 6y ago
        A straw man. It wasn’t exposed by saboteurs. It was exaggerated with false news stories to add to the legitimate and real concern and to keep the story in the news. The antisemitism is real. So is the outrage about how labour staffers conspired to destroy Labours electoral success. Your blindness to this obvious point is very revealing. Edit: you seemed to have silently edited your comment to change your argument, so I’ll do the same: > No. The "real solution" is to oppose anti-semitism with all due expediency. And the labour leaks show that a faction of the party was purposefully undermining labours ability to do this against the wishes of the leadership. Do you accept this? > I don't care if it was exasperated by "saboteurs". If Corbyn can't adopt this basic moral position that all humans ought to adopt, I don't care to hear any excuses at all. That makes no sense: are you really arguing that Corbyn’s political enemies’ actions lead you to hate Corbyn’s moral position, even when it ostensibly matches your own? Maybe you should have another think before you reply

frabbit 6y ago

Don't forget the use of Facebook micro-targetted ads to attempt to trick Corbyn into believing that his own party machinery was putting out the message that it was supposed to be: https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/labour-hq-used-facebook-ads-to-deceive-jeremy-corbyn-during-election-campaign-grlx75c27 https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/labour-hq-used-facebook-a... The centrist and right-wing of the Labour party have a lot to answer for and have clearly displayed that they will stick at nothing to ensure that: * There is no Green New Deal and the climate crisis is going to happen * Power remains in the hands of few incompetent fail sons and their sociopathic remoras.